## Comments
### Comment by Scott on 2015-08-25 20:23:43 -0400
Hey i have a question! I can’t seem to get my own router to get ipv6. Have you had any luck with that?
### Comment by Logan on 2015-08-26 09:51:32 -0400
Hi Scott,
In addition to what I sent you last night, I also found this. Unfortunately, I don’t see a date on when it will be rolled out.
### Comment by FIOS User on 2015-08-30 22:58:09 -0400
I had the technician activate the default Actiontec router using Ethernet instead of Coax during the inital setup. It worked with the TV too. After a month, i returned the router and set-top box and used the steps at http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Verizon_FiOS_-_Using_Your_Own_Router to setup Linksys WRT54G as a gateway wireless router (and wired router feeding 4 ethernets LAN pots around the house for my whole home ethernet) and an old DLink DIR601 Wireless N router in AP mode. Will eventually replace both the routers with either an eero / ubiquiti setup or some other Gigabit Wireless AC routers.
### Comment by Logan on 2015-08-31 08:41:09 -0400
Nice! I figured that the techs default to the coax install, but would do ethernet if asked. Are you still using FiOS TV without the Actiontec? Also, did you have to clone your MAC? I did, which I thought was weird…
I plan on switching from the Archer C7 to a Ubiquiti Edge Router Lite at some point. If you do it before I do, let me know how it goes! I’ve heard nothing but good things about it.
### Comment by Andrew Coutermarsh on 2015-11-08 23:24:44 -0500
I just swapped out my ActionTec with my ASUS RT-AC66U and ended up having to clone my MAC. Oddly, the MAC it wanted me to clone wasn’t the MAC that was listed under the WAN connection on the FIOS router—it was the wifi MAC, for some reason. I logged back into the ActionTec and it turns out that it had cloned that MAC as the default “broadband” MAC address and was using that as its official connection to the WAN.
I’m not sure if my tech set me up over Ethernet because he knew I wasn’t using TV or for some other reason, but he was the one who told me during the setup process that because I didn’t have TV I would be able to use my own router. He did NOT tell me that I’d have to go through a few hoops to get that done, but I’m not going to fault him too much for that.
I wonder if I can contact Verizon and have them remove whatever restriction is only allowing a certain MAC address to go through, as I don’t like the idea that for as long as I live here and have service with them, I’m going to have to keep this hardware address written down somewhere as a safeguard in case I have to wipe my firmware or something.
### Comment by Logan on 2015-11-09 11:39:00 -0500
Andrew,
That’s very strange that your router was set to clone the MAC of the wireless interface. I guess to Verizon, it doesn’t matter which MAC they use, as long as they see the same one consistently connecting…
I had to clone the MAC of my Actiontec’s WAN interface, and am wondering the same thing as you. I keep the old MAC saved in a spreadsheet, in case I need to reinstall. I considered calling customer service and having them release the old MAC, but to be honest, the technician I talked to seemed hesitant to let me switch out my router in the first place. In addition, he’s just the customer service technician and had to call an engineer to do the configuration changes. In all, it was a pretty big hassle and didn’t go as smoothly as I would have liked. Just to save myself some grief, I’m going to leave the cloned MAC. If you end up calling them, let me know how it goes!
Logan
### Comment by Pete on 2015-11-19 03:55:07 -0500
A quick update :
The tech who did my install ran cat5 for me, instead of coax, no problem.
My Netgear R8000 grabbed an IP, no cloning or delay (after removing the Actiontec).
On IPV6, they now have a 6to4 server that’s screaming fast. Not ideal, or native implementation, but sufficient stop-gap, for now, IMO.
### Comment by Logan on 2015-11-19 09:25:44 -0500
Thanks for the tip! How did you find out about that?
### Comment by Sakuji on 2015-12-03 00:59:00 -0500
Hi guy!
I’ve been monitoring your conversation for a while already since the original article was posted.
Currently, I’m not a Fios customer -used to be- since I switched to Xfinity since I transferred to a new house that is both cable ready for Xfinity and Fios (already with ONT box). Apparently, the previous owners switched to Xfnity’s mo-term-contract service since they were selling the house. When I bought the house, I asked them for me to retain/transfer the service to me while we settle in.
On the old/previous house we lived in, we used Fios triple play for about 5-6 years until we moved out and a couple of years of that I was able to use my own router to act as primary router. The Fios one was just passively connected to the network so I can use my STB’s on-demand features. Just like what you described here, I also needed to clone the mac of the fios router on the other router I used.
My question is: if I decide to transfer to Fios Internet-Only service, will I also be able to use my own non-Fios labeled router? When I called Fios they said I can use my own router “as long it’s either the old MI424WR or the newer AC-1750 Quantum Gateway” which are both Fios branded. I also can self install. Well, I don’t have either and -if I can- I don’t plan on buying one (even renting). However, based on what I’ve read over the internet and also on your discussion here, I need a Fios router mac address to clone and possibly an associated serial number for me to activate the service and eventually to clone?
What do you think, guys?
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-03 17:32:22 -0500
Sakuji,
Two things:
* When you purchase the self-install kit, does it come with a router? If so, you can clone that MAC address.
* If the self-install kit does not come with a router, I’d imagine you can call FiOS customer service and give them the MAC of your personal router. I chose not to do this, because it was enough trouble getting the technician to switch me to ethernet, and I didn’t want to make it more complicated. However, I’d imagine if you asked nicely, you could get him to use your personal MAC instead of the Actiontec MAC.
Either way, both things might warrant a call to their support to ask. Using your own router seems to be something that is possible, but they don’t actively promote. I’d imagine it’s just a matter of talking to the right person at Verizon to get the information you need.
Either way, let me know how it goes.
### Comment by Sakuji on 2015-12-04 09:45:53 -0500
Hi Logan
Thanks for the quick reply.
Well, I just found out yesterday that the my verizon order didn’t allow me to do a self- install since they considered it as a new install even if the verizon appliance and applicable cabling are still intact. Of course they will be charging me 80 bucks for that. The good news is they transferred me from 44.99 a month for 50/50 speeds to 29.99 a month for a two year contract both using my own verizon branded router. So still not bad.
I was also able to talk with the previous owner who became a friend of ours after the house sale and said that the their fios service was only discontinued two months before the actual closing on the house. So basically all things should be intact. He also said that the ONT box has already been converted and cabled for ethernet a year before selling the house. Indeed when I checked last night, the coaxial cable was already disconnected from the moca port while the LAN line serving the ONT was properly labeled and located conveniently over at the multimedia corner the previous owner set for the house . Even the various ONT diagnostic lights (except the moca one) are on and all in green. While the coaxial cabling is now serving the comcast/ xfinity services which I’m about to discontinue.
I was also able to discuss my plans with the previous owner and he said there is no way to do an outright non-Verizon router install without registering first a Verizon branded router during initial activation. He said that during activation, the first thing the verizon system will ask is the unique serial number of the router which should apparently be included in Verizon’s master list whether I sourced the router through Verizon itself or from a third party. And based on his previous research, all of those serial numbers are matched-up with all the mac addresses of all the verizon routers ever produced. He even showed me a screen capture of his old verizon account where the serial number is really matched up with the mac, admin user name and password (though partially hidden) of the router. This is why, he said, the verizon routers are easily hacked up -specially the earlier generations- coz the passwords are only referenced from a certain proprietary algorithm and not totally random. At least based on what he had read, majority of new installs, the admin access control were not being changed by owners away from the default. This was what also pushed him to put in a third party router.
Well, based on what he explained I kinda now understood verizon’s protocol and modus operandi with regards to their routers and activation process. The activation itself and – it seems likely than not- subsequent usage will always be associated with a mac address of a verizon approved router. And with that in mind I ordered the cheapest verizon router I can find on ebay and had it shipped express to me coz the verizon tech will be coming this Tuesday. I’ll just do mac cloning again after the install.
And lastly, when I checked over at the verizon forums, I found a couple of threads discussing ethernet installs. It seems like the instructions for tech installs was to do outright ethernet installs on these two scenarios: business internet and internet-only fios residential install. So I should be good specially that my ONT is cable ready for ethernet and apparently already activated for it.
I apologize for this lengthy write up. Just wanted to add more insight regarding this issue.
Thanks again, Logan.
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-04 12:11:51 -0500
That stinks they are charging you $80 for the self-install, even though you have the equipment already.
I wasn’t aware that you needed a Verizon-branded router to do the install because of the master-list of MAC addresses. Glad you’re getting one cheap, since you really only need it for its MAC address.
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it! Be sure to reply back when the install is completed and let me know how it went!
Logan
### Comment by Dom on 2015-12-08 22:29:05 -0500
I just called fios support today , they switched me from moca to ethernet when i asked politely:).
Im still using there quantum router though. If i buy a new router of my choice(nighthawk x6) will it be plug and go since they switched it over already?
I want to get rid of the 10$ rental for this qountum:)
Thanks
### Comment by Dom on 2015-12-08 22:33:07 -0500
Oh and sorry , wanted to thank you for this post for helping me do this?
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-09 14:02:28 -0500
Nice that they switched you to ethernet! No, you’ll need to do one of two things:
1. Plug in the Nighthawk and clone the MAC address of your Quantum’s WAN port (usually on the back of the router or in the web interface) onto your Nighthawk’s WAN port (assuming the stock firmware of the Nighthawk lets you do this)
2. Plug in the Nighthawk and call Verizon back to have them allow the Nighthawk’s MAC address to send/receive traffic (assuming Verizon lets you do this)
Let me know how it goes!
### Comment by Sakuji on 2015-12-10 11:30:45 -0500
Hi Logan
Just wanted to come back here and update you guys about my Fios (internet only install).
As i’ve mentioned in my last post, I bought my own cheapo/ used verizon quantum gateway. I had to do do this because:
1) activation always requires a valid Fios-registered router serial number. I’d be able to use the registered mac after the install
2) I’m trying to avoid the monthly rental
The router came in few hours before the tech is supposed to come in during install. I only had to unbox the unit, put in the power line and ethernet line to install everything. When the tech came in I just showed him the set up. He immediately commented why Verizon needed to do the install when I can do the self activation myself. Of course he was just annoyed with Verizon. He basically just did two things: activate the ont box via his tablet then activate my service through my laptop using the router’s serial number confirming what we have discussed above.
Anyway, he only needed about 2-3 minutes to do everything. He even took him longer finishing the sandwich snack my wife prepared for him and us discussing networking stuff coz he saw my home network set-up. He was nice.
Immediately after him leaving, I just did some cloning with my pfsense device and wen’t my merry way. I have the 50/50 service but pulling in 62/60’s for 30 bucks a month. In my area, that’s not bad.
Thanks Logan
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-10 13:41:44 -0500
Sakuji,
Sounds like it worked out! Glad you were able to get a cheap router just to use for the MAC. Hopefully is becomes an option for more people in the future.
Thanks again for the follow-up!
Logan
### Comment by Ronon on 2015-12-17 06:15:31 -0500
I’m getting ready to try this once again after a few failed attempts that ended in having to call Verizon just to get back to square one. I’m going to be using a pfsense based mini ITX machine with a dual headed Intel server NIC. The last time I tried, I cloned the Actiontec’s MAC, then did a DHCP release on the Actiontec per the instructions on the DSLReports page, and then swapped routers. But it couldn’t pull an IP despite having the Actiontec’s MAC address. I’m not sure what went wrong. I like the idea of just cloning and swapping, sounds like a quick and simple way of finding out if things are working and going straight back to the old router if there’s a problem that needs to be sorted out. So hopefully this weekend I’ll meet with success and finally be free of this 10 year old router with the built-in backdoor, and hopefully all without having to call Verizon again 🙂
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-17 09:15:12 -0500
Ronon,
Weird that it didn’t work the first time. Did you try doing a reboot on the new router after you plugged it in?
Either way, let me know how it goes! Do you have any details on your PfSense build? I’d love to build a box myself.
Logan
### Comment by Ronon on 2015-12-18 05:12:03 -0500
I can’t remember if I did, it was a year ago using a different board. I got my current Intel D2500CCE SoC board on Amazon as well as the Intel NIC. It does have onboard NIC’s but I have more confidence in a good dedicated NIC, especially for something like this. Here’s a link to the board: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006ICQ3FK? and the dual port NIC: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006HX1V?. Also this is the case I’ll be using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJOJJ6Q. I had considered trying to do this using Ubuntu Server, but realized I’d be missing out on a lot of bells and whistles. If only there was a full featured router package for Ubuntu/Debian Server. Anyway I’ll definitely post back how things turn out. I can’t wait to have this up and going 🙂
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-18 09:26:24 -0500
Thanks for the info!
### Comment by Ronon on 2015-12-19 20:39:21 -0500
Success! Cloning the MAC address once again didn’t work however, I can’t figure out why not since others have been able to go that route. Anyway, I decided to just wait it out. Verizon’s DHCP lease is 2 hours so it was just a matter of where I happened to be within that time frame. An hour and a half later everything was back online and PFSense had a WAN IP! Seems like sites pop up a bit faster too, but I also set the router’s DNS to Google’s, versus the old router that was using Verizon’s DNS. For my wireless devices I already had a separate wireless access point plugged into a switch so no problem there. The only thing left is TV, but I don’t watch much regular TV these days anyway so I’ll either get one of those coax to Ethernet units or just discontinue my TV service all together.
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-21 10:20:16 -0500
Very weird that cloning the MAC did not work, since that’s what did it for me. But glad you got it working on your pfSense box with your own MAC!
### Comment by bkz81 on 2015-12-30 07:16:25 -0500
Thank you for this write up. We switched to full internet service last week. The FIOS tech forced us to use the new fios router even though he clearly saw i had mounted my own router on the wall for the past 5 years, lol. I was able to release my dhcp address on the FIOS router, and then shut it down immediately after. I set my own router to dhcp and plugged it into the ONT lan port and bang! it picked up the IP address.
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-30 08:35:23 -0500
Glad to help! Did you not have to clone the MAC of your FiOS router to your personal router?
### Comment by bkz81 on 2015-12-31 06:43:53 -0500
Nope. The moment i plugged in my own router the IP address instantly came up.
### Comment by Danny on 2015-12-31 11:09:05 -0500
I recently purchased the ASUS RT-AC87U with the hope to replace my lousy FIOS Quantum Gateway router. After finding this website yesterday I followed the steps and released my IP address and shut down my router. I was a bit worried because I have an STB in a different room and we don’t use VOD, so I wasn’t worried about losing that feature. I connected my router and after about 2-3 min I was up and running without having to clone the MAC address. Thank you!
### Comment by Danny on 2015-12-31 11:15:48 -0500
FYI, My FIOS router had an ethernet connection.
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-31 11:28:18 -0500
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-31 11:32:27 -0500
Glad it worked out for you! I’m seeing more and more users not having to clone their MAC, very weird.
Is your STB still working? Are you using a MoCA adapter to feed data to it via coax?
### Comment by Danny on 2015-12-31 12:25:47 -0500
My original setup was internet only, which was setup ethernet. I added a STB later and on that installation they ran a coax cable from the ONT box into the other room. I disconnected the coax cable from my FIOS router prior to to switching out the router for about 30 min or so and the STB was working fine. This morning I checked the STB and it was still working, I guess only time will tell if I run into problems… I did log into my FIOS mobile app and the message under Router & Wi-fi says “Unable to retrieve Wi-Fi details at this time” I’m wondering how long that goes unnoticed…
### Comment by Logan on 2015-12-31 18:11:24 -0500
I’m still confused, where is the STB getting signal from if the coax cable plugged into it goes nowhere? But yes, your FiOS page will show that, since your router is no longer feeding data to Verizon.
### Comment by Danny on 2016-01-14 17:36:18 -0500
The STB was setup at least a year later and it’s in a different room from where the router is connected. They ran a coax cable from the ONT box to that side of the house. The STB is still running, the only bummer for my son is that it doesn’t display any upcoming programming.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-01-14 21:04:58 -0500
Ohhh so your ONT has both ethernet and coax coming out of it? I didn’t realize it could be act as a MoCA bridge itself. Makes sense!
And yes, unfortunately you lose some features going ethernet-only 🙁
### Comment by Raf on 2016-01-15 01:58:02 -0500
Total newbie here. I am currently looking into some routers that work well with DDWRT. So in theory, if i get service with them let them install their own router, then do the ethernet switch (if i cant get the tech to do that first) and then plug in my own router? Two scenarios come into play. So 1 – it works and you dont have to clone anything (which seems to be the case now). Then what, you just call verizzon and return the router? or 2. if doesnt work and you need to clone the MAC, and to save on the 10 dollar fee, just pay 20 bucks for one on ebay and use that MAC?
Total side question, I am currently looking at routers. I do not really have a budget but dont want to spend a killer amount. I am looking for a good router that works well with DDWRT that i can passthrough with my Private VPN, if that makes any sense. Any suggestions?
### Comment by Raf on 2016-01-15 02:00:40 -0500
Might have gotten to technical for my own good. I have a private VPN server set up and I want all traffic to pass through that connection. What is the best set up for that, if you can shed any light.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-01-15 10:37:30 -0500
I guess my first question is, are you renting the router or do you own it already?
1) You can return the router if you’re renting it from Verizon. However, I would only return it if you do not need to clone a MAC address. If you own the router (I own mine), you can keep it. You may be able to sell it online, but don’t quote me on that.
2) Yes, a previous commenter was able to buy a used router on eBay and use its MAC address.
You could go with a couple options for routers:
* Consumer level router – I highly recommended the TP-Link Archer C7. It has support for both OpenWrt and (apparently) DDWRT. This is the router I use at home with OpenWrt and have no issues with it.
* Pro-sumer level router – This is aimed more at a consumers who are more technical, but don’t want to spend money on enterprise-class devices for home (e.g., Cisco, Juniper, etc…). There are various hardware manufacturers available, such as PCEngines, Ubiquiti, MikroTik, NetGate, and Turris. As far as software goes, you can choose from the manufacturer’s software, OpenWrt, DDWRT, or pfSense.
If you’re set on DDWRT hardware, I’d check out the r/DDWRT subreddit, it’s usually full of suggestions.
### Comment by Danny on 2016-01-15 12:25:15 -0500
Hey Logan, Yes, it has both. I found this yesterday http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15992 tried it last night and BAM! The guide is back and now my son is happy. I simply changed the LAN subnet on the FIOS router to 192.168.0.x and disabled wireless.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-01-15 14:52:26 -0500
Thanks! I’ve updated my post to include a link to your comment.
### Comment by Mike on 2016-01-18 08:18:12 -0500
I just had FIOS installed at my new home. I am still using the same account I had from before I moved. While doing the install, I asked the tech if I could try my x6 router. It worked like a champ and right now that is what I am using. No set top boxes; all smart TV’s. I plan on using a TIVO because my wife likes a single, simple remote.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-01-18 20:29:49 -0500
Thanks for sharing! I guess the tech didn’t give you a hard time about using the X6? Was your ONT already provisioned for ethernet?
### Comment by KBV on 2016-01-26 13:06:58 -0500
So while you don’t have to use their router, are you still required to purchase/rent one of theirs? It seems like this article says that you will have to get the account/password from the sticker on the router.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-01-28 12:35:45 -0500
I’m not 100% on that. I needed a FiOS router in order to have a valid MAC to clone, but some people have gotten away without one.
The username/password is just so you can login to the older router to break the DHCP lease.
### Comment by Ron on 2016-01-28 13:38:06 -0500
I’ve had FIOS in the Dallas area since 2006. I’ve never had to clone a MAC for any of the routers I’ve used, but my installation is obviously pretty old. I just tried releasing my IP, changing my MAC, and bringing the wan back up and it worked fine (even got a new IP). Curiously, when I switched back to my “natural” MAC and brought the wan up, I got the same (new) IP that the altered MAC had. How are you releasing your lease?
Off topic: have you tested the throughput on your Archer between 802.1q VLANs? I’ve got a TP-Link WDR4300 running Chaos Calmer, and I recently discovered that although it is a gigabit router, I can only get about 300Mbps between VLANs. This is apparently a known thing, although I’ve never been able to determine if it’s a problem with the router design itself or a quirk of OpenWRT running on the router. I don’t think the stock firmware even supports 802.1q VLANs, so it may just be inefficiency in the router’s switch.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-01-29 09:25:04 -0500
Thanks for the info! It seems some people can get away with any MAC, while some can’t. I released my lease via the web interface of the FiOS router.
No, I haven’t setup any VLANs yet, but that’s an interesting point.
### Comment by BG on 2016-02-09 10:29:09 -0500
Hello, do you need to use a cat6 cable for initial set up, or will a cat5 suffice? And if so, can I purchase a cat6 cable instead of creating one myself? I am a Fios internet only user. My ideal set up in my apartment is fairly simple. I’m trying to use my Onhub instead of the Quantum router in order to get out of the rental fee. And I’m very familiar with the limitations the Onhub has to other routers that are being used in this forum, but as I mentioned before my set up is fairly simple. I have one android tv box that will be hardwired and I might use another tablet for streaming if the box is being used or if I dont want to go into the living room. Other than that no gaming or anything. Thanks for any info on the cat5/6 dilemma.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-02-09 10:48:58 -0500
Cat5 will be fine, but Cat6 is more future-proof. They will both deliver 1Gbps speeds. I used this cable to run between the ONT and my router and have had no issues with it. I only had to cut the heads off because I didn’t want to drill a big hole in the floor to pass the cable through. I’ve never used the OnHub, but don’t see why it wouldn’t work.
### Comment by Peter on 2016-02-10 18:48:59 -0500
Hi, Logan,
So i decided to switch to use FIOS service nect week and rent Verizon router for one month or so.
Let’s assume that , i activate FIOS service using the given router, then switch to use my own router and Verizon router’s MAC cloning is inevitable (if it happens to me). Everything is stable and steady, and i return Verizon router. In future, if this router is gonna used by another new customer, do you think it will cause conflict and affect my internet service?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-02-10 20:54:09 -0500
Peter,
Honestly, I can’t say yes or no either way. I’m not sure if Verizon recycles serial numbers/MAC addresses like that. However, some commenters are reporting that they don’t need to clone a MAC at all and their service just works (using their device’s original MAC). To be honest, it’s worth a shot to have the technician provision your ONT as ethernet from the beginning, use the Actiontec to get service up and running, then switch to your router while the tech is there. Either way, I’d love to hear how it goes for you! Good luck!
Logan
### Comment by DerekC on 2016-02-14 12:32:01 -0500
Thanks for this very informative post! I’m planning to make this switch from MOCA to Ethernet soon. My question is this – why not put the new router (Nighthawk or whatever) into bridge mode and let the Verizon Quantum router be your DHCP server. Everything else feeds through your router. I have mine set up this way now and it eliminates the double-NAT issue, with my own GB switches and several routers in bridge mode, and the wireless turned off in the Verizon router settings. What’s the point of eliminating the Verizon device? They aren’t charging a “rental” fee on it as far as I know. I have changed my password from the default, so I’m not worried about hackers getting hold of that info.
Thanks!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-02-14 18:13:19 -0500
You’re welcome! You could use bridged mode as well. I personally wanted to use my main router as the primary router. For me, I just wanted one less box on the shelf 😉
### Comment by Peter on 2016-02-18 22:07:28 -0500
Hey, Logan,
I Just got my FIOS line activated (100D/100U speed), and i am using my Asus RT-AC66U now (without Verizon new router). MAC clone is still necessary.
Now comes the question:
Is anyone here already returned the new router to Verizon and still using the its MAC address (clone) without having any further issues?
Should i just get a 2nd hand unit of Verizon-compatible router just in case the current cloned MAC address is blacklisted or becomes invalid?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-02-22 09:34:17 -0500
Pete, glad it worked out for you (even if you did have to clone the MAC).
Unfortunately, I haven’t returned my Actiontec (just in case), so I can’t answer that. But, hopefully someone else can!
Did you call Verizon and see if they can see the ASUS MAC from their end? Wonder if they’d allow that MAC onto the “whitelist”.
### Comment by James on 2016-02-26 12:00:21 -0500
I switched to FIOS 25/25 about 6 years ago. Being a network and systems admin, when the installer came out we started talking shop while he was waiting for his guys to replace the line to the ONT(it had been cut by BHN guys when we moved in a year earlier haha) and he asked me if I wanted to use my own gateway. Of course I said, so he set up the ethernet port on the ONT for me. Fast forward to a month ago when my Cisco ASA 5500 gave up the ghost. As I wanted to upgrade my AP as well I went with a Netgear R7500, cloned the MAC from the ASA preemptively and had no issues. Then this week I realized I was paying the same for my 25/25 as their 75/75 costs so did the upgrade. Of course my issue now is even after my account says my service is now 75/75 and I power cycled both the ONT(disconnected AC and batt) and router, I am still only getting 25/25. Has anyone else seen or heard of this with FIOS Quantum? I am loathe to call tech support about this as I am sure trying to explain this to them would be an exercise in frustration and futility.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-02-26 12:08:24 -0500
Did you JUST change your service? Wondering if it takes a day to get those speeds (though it shouldn’t). You could try plugging your PC directly into the ONT to test the speed, though I doubt it’s the R7500 causing you issues. Maybe in their database the MAC from the Cisco device is tied to the 25/25 speed. Wonder if you temporarily tried using the R7500’s real MAC if it would work?
### Comment by James on 2016-02-26 12:14:03 -0500
I changed it Wednesday, but and I’m assuming it has to do with the billing cycle, that it wouldn’t begin till today. Good idea about trying the native MAC, I have a feeling it might be MAC related, like a whitelist for quantum routers as I believe someone mentioned, but I would think there would be no service, not just throttled if that were the case. I will try that and let you know the results.
### Comment by James on 2016-02-26 14:40:55 -0500
Set the MAC back to default, power cycled everything again and still no change. I’ll probably give it the weekend to fully provision.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-02-27 09:32:58 -0500
You may have to give them a call. My tech said it could take 24 hours, but if it’s not provisioned by now something is wrong…
### Comment by router on 2016-02-28 18:09:21 -0500
Hi Guys! Thanks Logan for the write up and all the commenters for their experiences. I got my FiOS yesterday, used their router to set up. Ran a CAT5e and called verizon tech. support to change over to ethernet and they readily obliged. However, the actiontec router did not get an IP. The tech helped me through to figure out why, really nice of him. We concluded that the cable had a problem and we left it at that. After a little while the router got an IP on its own and everything was fine. Then I followed the posted procedure to change over to my own router and I didn’t get an IP. I cloned, which didn’t lead to success. I connected my laptop direct to the ethernet cable and readily got a working connection. So, it is not the MAC. What else is stopping my router from getting an IP? Any thoughts? Greatly appreciated!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-02-29 08:51:13 -0500
I would definitely recommend getting a cable tester, just to rule out situations like that. Did you leave the new router connected for as long as the old router to see if it would pull an IP? Also, I wonder if Verizon filters certain MAC addresses (e.g., MACs from router manufacturers that aren’t Actiontec). Either way, this may take a call to Verizon again to resolve.
### Comment by Peter on 2016-02-29 23:11:52 -0500
Hi, James,
i am having the same problem now. i posted here not long ago. I cloned Quantum Gateway router 2016 MAC address onto my Asus RT-AC66U and returned the router back to Verizon. Initially it was clocked at 100D/100U speed. Until i was just told that the speed is now 25D/2U. So, before i call Verizon, Just want to find out what updates you got at your situation. Don’t mind if you share with us!
### Comment by James on 2016-03-01 09:23:14 -0500
So this particular rabbit hole is getting deeper and deeper. Still no change in throughput rates. I received an email over the weekend from VZN that the upgrade to my account had occurred. As part of the deal when I upgraded, they sent me a G1100 router which arrived yesterday afternoon. I immediately cloned the MAC off the WAN to my router, the speed didn’t change, however my external IP changed to a starting subnet I have never seen before with VZN. It had previously always been 173.x.x.x and now it is 100.x.x.x! I will be taking some time to dig further into this issue and will let you all know the steps and results of those efforts.
### Comment by Peter on 2016-03-01 17:08:51 -0500
Hi, James,
i know the reason causes threshold – QOS. I thought i already turned it off when i restored to factory setting. So now i get back my original speed!
http://www.speedtest.net/result/5131652903.png
To further investigate your situation – if you connect your own router using CAT5e cable to ONT, unplug the cable from the end of the router to your computer. If it reaches the allocated speed, then you’ve narrowed down your issue to the router itself, then you may start further troubleshoot the problem.
Look forward to your findings!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-02 22:17:48 -0500
Interesting, good find! Hope it helps James out!
Also, it’s been a day since you posted this comment. Assuming it’s still working OK?
### Comment by router on 2016-03-03 18:09:16 -0500
Yes, I did leave it long enough. Even overnight. I called tech. support and was told that they do not do any MAC filtering and all that is needed is a router that would do DHCP on WAN port, which mine does (it is a Belkin N300). Beyond that the tech. said he could not do anything, they don’t provide support for third party router set up. When I connect the Belkin behind the Actiontec, it happily works. So, it is a mystery. I am looking at getting another wireless router, but not sure which one – who is to tell that it will work.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-03 19:18:43 -0500
That’s very strange. I can’t believe they don’t do any sort of filtering or anything.
I wish I could help you but I’m out of ideas. I assume you’ve factory reset your router and checked for a firmware update? Belkin is not a great router, but you should still be able to use it, especially considering it works behind the Actiontec.
### Comment by John on 2016-03-07 12:06:49 -0500
Hi Guys (and Logan),
First wanted to thank you for this article. It was very clear and helpful. I have been all over the Verizon forums to no avail, just trying to figure all this out (also if I needed a modem for Verizon). So thank you! You’re a saint. 🙂
Now, I just signed up for Verizon today (150/150, only internet). They are coming to install in a week, my plan is to very nicely ask the installer to run ethernet initially and skip all the coax stuff from the start. I want to use this router [ASUS RT-AC66U Dual-Band Wireless-AC1750 Gigabit Router] as it is very speedy and seems great. Having read the article and all the comments, my concern is that I will not have a MCA address to copy, if I never use a Verizon router. Is this true? What do you think of my plan? Keep in mind, I am fairly new to this stuff and the MAC address part in particular is a bit over my head.
Thanks!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-07 12:32:57 -0500
John,
Apparently, it is required for the tech to set you up with a Verizon router (either the Actiontec or the Quantum). After that, it’s up to you to to setup your own router. At that point, since you’ll have a Verizon router, you’ll have a MAC to copy.
A MAC address is a physical address (that looks like this 01:23:45:67:89:ab) that is “burned” into each network device. On a laptop, your wired interface will have a MAC, your wireless interface will have a MAC, and your bluetooth interface will have a MAC. In the case of Verizon, I’ve heard that they keep a list of all of their allowed MACs. Since the MAC of your ASUS router won’t be in that list, you _may_ need to clone the Actiontec MAC onto the ASUS router. This will basically trick Verizon into allowing your router. This appears to be instructions on how to clone the MAC on an ASUS router (not sure if your model applies).
However, I’ve heard some conflicting reports. I had to clone my MAC, but other users did not. According to Verizon, they do not have a list of MACs, and will allow any MAC onto the network.
My best advice is to try it without cloning the MAC. If that doesn’t work, try to clone the MAC.
Logan
PS – Another great resource for FiOS problems is DSLReports. They also have a table to compare the different router setups.
### Comment by Laurence on 2016-03-08 12:19:01 -0500
Hi and thanks for all the information.
I have a new fios set up, but the installer ran ethernet cable from the ONT to the VZN router right off the bat. Then there’s coax from there to a second wifi router in the bedroom. I’d like to stop paying the monthly lease fee by replacing the routers.
I have three questions:
1. Is it hard to revert to the FIOS setup if I try the above instructions and it doesn’t work (I do not know a whole lot about the technical details of these connections)?
2. When I looked at the Broadband Connection Settings under Network Connections, the DHCP Lease option still has the Release option. I thought that was a step in switching to ethernet out of the ONT. But if my ONT is already ethernet, do I have to worry about that part? Should I just try swapping out the router?
3. I read a lot about cloning a MAC address – does that mean looking at the current settings of the VZN router and copying them down and then connecting the replacement router and editing the existing MAC address settings to match? Or is there some special built-in clone funtion?
Thanks to all for any help. Much appreciated!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-09 16:05:57 -0500
Is the second router a Verizon router as well?
Short answers
1) No, not hard to revert
2) No, you shouldn’t need to release your DHCP lease
3) Yes, it’s as simple as copy/pasting the MAC
Long answers
1) If you’re replacing their routers with your own, you’ll need to pre-configure yours and just swap them out. You’ll obviously need to run a ethernet cable in place of that coax cable, since your routers won’t have a coax connection. If you can’t run ethernet, you can buy a MoCA adapter that will basically transform coax to ethernet on each end of that cable. If you do swap everything out and want to revert, just put the old routers back in place.
2) The DHCP lease is used when flipping from coax to ethernet. Since you’re already ethernet, you shouldn’t need to do that. However, I don’t think it would hurt if you did it.
3) Your new router will need to have the option to change your MAC, since not all offer that feature. This appears to be instructions on how to clone the MAC on an ASUS router (not sure if your model applies).
### Comment by Eric on 2016-03-12 08:31:33 -0500
Hi, I had the ont wired for Ethernet and I’m going through the steps. However, I don’t see released DHCP in the settings. It just has ‘renew.’ What is my next step?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-12 21:58:44 -0500
I don’t have an Actiontec router anymore to test this. I’d imagine since you can’t release it, you could try to renew then release. Is the release button there but grayed out?
### Comment by Laurence on 2016-03-14 09:42:37 -0400
Thank a lot. I appreciate your help. I’ll come back once I’ve found a replacement router and tried it out. Not too excited about running more cable (I’m in an apartment – no way to hide cables). Sounds like I will need two MoCA adapters, though.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-14 10:47:31 -0400
You can buy them in pairs, but they still appear to be a little on the expensive side.
http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ethernet-Adapter-without-Routers/dp/B008EQ4BQG
http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Bonded-Ethernet-Adapter-ECB6200K02/dp/B013J7O3X0
### Comment by Mike on 2016-03-14 16:42:12 -0400
This worked like a charm with my new ASUS router, thanks!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-14 19:51:18 -0400
Glad to hear!
### Comment by John on 2016-03-14 22:35:44 -0400
Hi Logan,
Thanks so much for your response. The ONT was setup today and the technician wired with Ethernet, which is great. I have the Asus all set up and my admin access/my computer is connected to the wifi, but no internet. It won’t let me activate my service with Verizon. I initially thought this might be a MAC issue (making my fears a reality), however thanks to your extremely helpful response (that Asus link in particular was very useful and straight forward, THANKS!) I was able to clone my MAC, which was really quite easy. This has not helped at all. I cloned it to the Actiontec MAC (an old one that I had, the tech never used any Verizon router). This still didn’t seem to solve the problem. I tried working through Verizon, but they wouldn’t help me since I was not using their router. I spent about 6 hours trying to troubleshoot via Asus admin settings (most of which is way over my head). Any ideas? Perhaps the Actiontec MAC is no longer on Verizon’s “list”? Do think I should call and ask for a MAC? Haha I am really at my wits end and would appreciate all and any advice.
As always, I appreciate all you do and your expertise is very much valued and appreciated!
John
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-14 22:43:48 -0400
John, I’m not 100% but I think the service needs to be initially activated on a Verizon router. Can you try your old Actiontec to see if that works?
### Comment by Eric on 2016-03-15 12:05:53 -0400
I found the mistake. I clicked on the edit icon for ethernet rather than on ethernet (or vice-versa) which didn’t take me to the same screen. I actually didn’t need to call Verizon. It worked after breaking the lease. Thanks so much!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-15 22:07:15 -0400
Makes sense, glad it’s working!
### Comment by Jared on 2016-03-19 00:50:41 -0400
Hi,
Today I had Verizon come out and set up internet only. I had purchased an Asus RT-AC66W to use instead of a Verizon router. I did get an actiontec router from eBay to copy the MAC Address from but after the installation we tried using my router first. All the lights came on and there were no hiccups. I was able to activate just fine.
It’s only been a day so we’ll see if there are any problems that pop up but for now everything works without copying the MAC Address!
I hope everyone else is just as lucky. I’ll add that maybe the fact that I didn’t activate the service with the actiontec may have helped, but what do I know?
Also one last thing. The technician informed me that to run Ethernet instead of coax would cost a one time fee of $65.00. I reluctantly agreed to it but he ultimately said that he wasn’t going to charge me for it because it didn’t end up being that difficult.
Either way, thanks for the write-up!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-20 02:49:33 -0400
Jared, glad it worked out for you! Seems that some folks are able to make it work without copying the MAC, but some aren’t.
And yes, most houses aren’t wired for ethernet, so I’d imagine that they’d charge you a small fee. Glad he was able to run it for you (for free)!
### Comment by Doug on 2016-03-23 13:06:01 -0400
I am not very internet savvy, but I wanted to use a better router than the Fios Actiontec I was given. I am trying to get rid of verizon tv and phone, but keep the internet. I purchased a DLink ac3200 router. Then I read all these different things I needed to do in order to use it (Call verizon to convert to ethernet from Coax, change IP addresses, etc). However, I used the ehternet cord provided in the DLink router connected it from the LAN port of the actiontec to the DLink router. Now both routers show up as available. When I did a speed test the Dlink is giving me almost twice as fast speed (upload and download) than the actiontec.
Did I do anything wrong, or am I missing out on anything by not changing any setup? Is the actiontec restricting the full power and capabilities of the DLink router?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-23 13:15:19 -0400
So the Actiontec sounds like the primary router (connected to ONT via coax) and the D-Link is behind it, right? That is called a double-NAT. Nothing wrong with this setup. If the Actiontec only has 100M ports (depends on the model), the D-Link will never go past 100M (if your FiOS connection isn’t 100Mbps or greater, no need to worry about this).
Was the speed test when you were plugged into each router, or wireless?
### Comment by Doug on 2016-03-23 13:54:22 -0400
Correct the Actiontec is connected to the ONT via coax. The speed test was done wireless. About 10 feet from router i received 90 Mbps download and 86 Mbps upload. About 40 feet from router I got 55/40. Both were roughly double the Actiontec router.
I believe I have the Actiontec Mi424wr router. I subscribe to 100/100 service, however prior to the DLink router, I noticed a lot of buffering and lagging. Now that I am trying to use Hulu and NetFlix (along with an Xbox One, and my kids playing online computer games), I wanted faster/better service.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-23 14:07:03 -0400
If it’s wireless there’s a lot at play. What are you using on the old/new routers? 802.11 **a** or **b** or **g** or **n** or **ac**? 2.4GHz or 5GHz? The Mi424wr is **b/g/n**, while the D-Link you have is **ac**. AC has much more bandwidth than N, which means it is faster. AC doesn’t have a better range than N, but performs much better at the same distance as N. In order to take advantage of this, all your devices need to be compatible with AC, otherwise each device will automatically fall back to N speeds.
https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/80068/file-374541876-png/images/slide1.png
The Mi424wr is 1000Mbps (1Gbps) so you don’t need to worry about it being your bottleneck. If you’re not using the built-in wireless on the Mi424wr, I’d turn it off (for security). Personally, I run this same setup at home (with my primary router behind the Mi424wr and all my devices connecting my router). You should be good with your setup well into the future!
### Comment by Doug on 2016-03-23 14:50:29 -0400
Thank you Logan, you have been VERY helpful..
### Comment by German on 2016-03-24 03:19:44 -0400
Hi Logan, I want to stop paying for this VZN router, now I have my Fios G1100 connected to a coax wire (no Ethernet G45 connected), the main ONT in the garage and I live in the 3 floor ( in other words i am trying to avoid the G45 wire to my apartment, also I have the famous triple play; tv, phone and internet) reading your results i was trying to do this: 1) buy a Actiontec Bonded MoCA 2.0 Ethernet to Coax Adapter, remove the fios router, connect the moca and then my netgear router 2) copy the MAC add. just in case, 3) turn on my Netgear router and see if it works if not clone the mac address 4) return the router to Vzn.
3 questions:
1) do you think I am correct or is something I have to change?
2) As I mention before I have the triple pack, it means I can not release the DHCP right?
if I am wrong how I can use my own router and fire the Vzn router and keep using the TV and Ph. services?
thanks for your time and help.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-24 16:29:35 -0400
That plan should work! However, I’m not sure if it will work 100% with the TV and phone bundle. Apparently some TV functions (VoD, the guide, etc…) require the Verizon router to be on the network. I’d recommend this site as a guide. Specifically, you’ll want to look at the rows labeled “FiOS-TV (VOD and Guide) supported” and “Coax WAN to ONT”. I’d hate to recommend a setup and find out you lost some functionality…
### Comment by German on 2016-03-24 16:54:57 -0400
Yeah…. I will keep you posted. …one more question. … the internet speed from the RG45 to my router is the same if I use a Moca over a Coax wire or is a little bit slow? …. what you think when you compare both speeds…. one is faster than the other? Again thanks
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-26 23:14:03 -0400
I’ve never used MoCA, but I’ve read that it’s not as fast at Ethernet. Even if your MoCA adapter has full 1000Mbps ethernet ports, the MoCA protocol only allows for a fraction of that speed. According to this (#9), it’s about 350Mbps for MoCA 2.0 and 100Mbps for MoCA 1.0.
> 9. Has MoCA conducted real world testing to confirm its performance claims?
>
> In 2015, MoCA conducted field tests for MoCA 2.0 in more than 200 homes around the U.S. Preliminary results demonstrate better than 400 Mbps net throughputs (MAC rate) in 90 percent of all coaxial cabling outlets, or paths. Net throughputs were greater than 350 Mbps for 95 percent of paths.
>
> Homeowners were volunteers in several states in the U.S. No special conditions were required to be a participant. For instance, no homes were screened or chosen based on construction materials, age or condition of wiring, or type of pay TV service. The objective was to collect results from a diversity of real-world, coax-based installations.
>
> This is the second field trial conducted by MoCA. In 2005, the Alliance conducted tests of MoCA 1.0 in 250 homes throughout the US and verified better than 100 Mbps net throughputs in 97 percent of all outlets. The same data rate was achieved in 100 percent of outlets with minor remediation to the in-home network.
>
> The results of the field tests are available on the public portion of the MoCA web site. MoCA is the only home networking alliance to publish their field tests.
### Comment by Oliver on 2016-03-29 15:36:02 -0400
Just to thank you for your post; always nice to see people sharing their knowledge.
And to let you know about my experience:
* Verizon phone tech support fumbled on the phone (I had to reset the router and the ONT was not switched to ethernet),
* Verizon tech man who was dispatched (two days later) just hit a button on his tablet and the ONT was switched (he also wondered whatthe tech support on the phone did…),
* the VerizonActionTech plugged on the ethernet cable from the ONT worked immediately,
* I had to clone the VerizonActionTech MAC address on my router broadband interface to get an IP from the ONT,
* as having the VOD working was part of the requirements, I
– let the coax cable plugged into the VerizonActionTech,
– plugged the VerizonActionTech WAN port onto my router (with an ethernet cable),
– let the VerizonActionTech use its default subnet (192.168.1.0/24),
– set a specific (and different) subnet for my LAN on my router,
– add the following rules to your firewall if you are firewalling outgoing traffic
#ACTION SOURCE DEST PROTO DEST PORT
ACCEPT loc: net tcp 322
ACCEPT loc: net udp 48879
-> VOD is working.
And, once again, thanks for sharing!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-03-29 17:10:20 -0400
Glad you got it working! Also good to hear you have a setup with VOD, you’ll be able to help many others with this same problem!
### Comment by Ant1thomas on 2016-04-02 14:15:27 -0400
Thanks!!! I read over your instructions and experience and I just completed the swap. It took me no time at all. The most difficult part was having to drill through a brick wall to run the ethernet to my ONT. The tech at verizon had my port switched over within about 10 or 15 minutes and shortly after, my new router was working great. About three months ago I cut the cord on my cable and decided to stream everything via Amazon Fire TV and 3 Fire TV sticks along with Kodi. Now that I have the freedom of my own router and can get the benefits of having both 2.4 and 5g it’s smooth sailing. I haven’t had time to test everything out yet but I’m hoping that using 5g with my fire sticks will allow live TV to stream with no buffering issues. Thanks again for this amazing write up and easy to understand instructions.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-04-03 18:33:31 -0400
Glad it worked! Did you crimp your own cables or drill holes big enough for the RJ45 heads? Also, did you have to clone the MAC of the Actiontec router to your router? And yes, 5GHz is pretty nice, but I’m finding that the range isn’t as good as 2.4GHz, you just need to find that sweet spot.
### Comment by Matt C on 2016-04-05 14:45:11 -0400
Well, I am going to be ordering FiOS for my new apartment within the week (for internet only 150/150) and I plan on using my Asus RT-AC66U router instead of their Actiontec/Quantam Gateway. I want to order it without their router to begin with so I don’t have to pay for it, if possible, so I’m going to try the method described here https://www.reddit.com/r/Fios/comments/3db48x/how_to_order_fios_internet_and_avoid_router_fees/ to place my order without a Verizon Router, I’ll report back on how it goes. Else, I’ll have to get their router, do the install, then swap it out for mine (I plan on requesting the tech set me up on Ethernet from the get-go) with or without a MAC Clone (if I have to do it I don’t mind – it takes 2 seconds to do) and then just return their router so I’m not paying $10/month for it.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-04-05 14:58:19 -0400
Good luck, let me know how it goes! Since you’re in an apartment, is it already wired for ethernet or are you using coax? They don’t put an ONT in each apartment, right?
### Comment by David on 2016-04-05 17:51:32 -0400
Thank you for this, along with all who posted. I got my ONT provisioned for ethernet when I upgraded my service to 150/150 from 100/100. Since, I’ve decided to drop the tv service and it became the perfect opportunity to drop the quantum gateway as well. I chose the ASUS RT-AC87U.
Fortunately for me, once I released the DHCP, unplugged the quantum gateway, and installed the ASUS, it pulled a new IP address and within 5 minutes, I was up and running full speed. No MAC cloning and it went over without a hitch or call to, now Frontier.
Thanks again to all.
David
### Comment by Logan on 2016-04-06 11:23:01 -0400
Good to hear! The AC87U is a great router! Thanks for sharing!
### Comment by Ant1thomas on 2016-04-27 15:24:28 -0400
I drilled a hole large enough for the head to get through. Having to crimp the cable seemed more time consuming than just caulking the extra space around the hole. I did not have to clone my MAC either. All in all it was a very simple and straight forward process and I owe all of that to your instructions. Thanks again. Yes the range on 5GHz isn’t as good but for the size of our house and where are TVs are located, it works ok.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-04-28 09:24:21 -0400
Glad it worked out!
### Comment by ChrisB on 2016-05-08 14:54:52 -0400
Thanks a lot for instructions. My connection already had ethernet setup, so it was more straightforward for me. Nonetheless this helped me understand whats happening and made me comfortable to make the switch.
However, it was sort of required to release the DHCP lease to get the network working again without cloning the MAC address. I first tried to just plug in my router without cloning and it did not get an IP address. (I only waited for 1-2 mins; its possible that if I would waited long enough it would have worked. But I am impatient 😛 ). On cloning the MAC address, it got the IP address immediately. However, as I wanted to return the Verizon-router I tried to use my router’s MAC address. I first released the DHCP lease, quickly reverted back the MAC to my router’s original and then my router was able to get IP address right away. Looking forward to save $10+tax per month 🙂 . Thanks.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-05-09 09:14:21 -0400
Thanks for sharing! I’ll have to try that on my router and see if it works as well (I’m currently cloning the MAC). I’m assuming you haven’t had any issues since you’ve made the change? What about after a reboot of the router, still no issues?
### Comment by Randy on 2016-05-09 20:18:38 -0400
Hi,
this thread seems to be good. I am considering switching to Verizon from Comcast (the only 2 available in my area). I only want internet. Is there a way to use my own modem instead of renting Verizon’s? How can I find out what modems are compatible? I don’t have huge internet demands (occasional movie download and photo uploads). I typically run 3-5 devices on my wifi (max devices would be 5 or 6). Thanks in advance!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-05-09 21:29:54 -0400
Technically, you’re talking about using your own router, not modem (FiOS doesn’t have a modem the way Comcast does).
Verizon will install an ONT on your property, typically inside your garage or basement. This is the “modem” that converts the fiber signal to a signal that travels over copper cable (either ethernet or coax). If you want to use your own router, ask the technician who installs it to run ethernet instead of coax (assuming it’s easy enough to run the wires through the walls in your house). Then, when he goes to plug in their router, tell him you want to use your own and then plug it in. He’ll then have to activate your service and hopefully it will all work. I’d call and speak with someone to clear all this before you buy it.
As far as a router goes, almost any consumer WiFi router would work. I’d recommend using at least 802.11n wireless, or the newer 802.11ac.
### Comment by ChrisB on 2016-05-15 22:31:47 -0400
I have tried rebooting the router a couple of times, including unplugging the power directly. No problems till now. I will let you know here if I do hit an issue.
The much bigger problem was to convince Verizon guys that I do not need their router. The support on phone kept telling me that I can not use my router if it is not one of their selected routers (from a list of two routers!). Somehow I managed (by basically lying that I have one of those routers) and told them that I will return the router to a store in the town. The guy in the store went one step ahead and said that I have to use the rental router with all Verizon Fios connection. He said that I have to cancel my account if I want to return the router. I have to give him a very firm reply that “Yes! I CAN use my own router with Fios. Its even on your website.” I also mentioned that I have talked to support and my own router works fine. Then he said, “OK wait”. And within 30 seconds he was printing me a receipt. It was weird – I felt that the employees are encouraged to talk customers out of things which would reduce their bill.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-05-16 09:26:58 -0400
Thanks for the follow up!
I’m not surprised you had such a hard time convincing them to use your own router. I’m sure, like you said, that they’re trained to talk you out of lowering your own bill. But regardless, glad you got it working and thanks for sharing your experience here!
### Comment by Dean on 2016-05-20 07:32:02 -0400
Danny I just got a ASUS AC5300, so your just bridged the Quantum? Or can you spell out the steps you did I want to do the same thing.
### Comment by Dean on 2016-05-20 09:56:56 -0400
Thats a valid question, I would say No just in case there would be a duplicate…..not sure tho
### Comment by Dean on 2016-05-20 09:59:45 -0400
Logan,
Is Cat7 ok to use as well? I found some good wire on Amazon and wondered if it is good.
### Comment by Jim on 2016-05-20 10:45:08 -0400
“What’s the point of eliminating the Verizon device? They aren’t charging a “rental” fee on it as far as I know.”
I think they charge $10 a month for router rental.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-05-20 10:57:33 -0400
Cat7 should work, but Cat7 isn’t an official cable. Can I ask why you’re using this? Cat5 and Cat6 will both do 1Gbps, and Cat6 can do 10Gbps, so why use Cat7? Also, are you using a router that can route 10Gbps?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-05-20 10:59:30 -0400
Correct, if you’re renting it. Some people buy it outright for $150ish, so they don’t have a rental fee.
### Comment by Dean on 2016-05-20 13:01:48 -0400
So Oliver you wanted to keep VOD, and other functions?
### Comment by Dean on 2016-05-20 13:03:30 -0400
wow I hope mine goes that smoothly
### Comment by Alex on 2016-05-27 15:43:18 -0400
Thanks for the post. Very informative.
For people calling FiOS support, the special phrase to use is ‘please switch my ONT port type.’ I went around and around with the level 1 support guy until he figured out this is what I wanted and called the network specialist to perform the change.
### Comment by ChrisB on 2016-05-30 15:26:17 -0400
Just to update, it seems that the newer ONTs are much more easier to handle. I have one of this one: http://imgur.com/a/Q8EXV
### Comment by Logan on 2016-05-30 20:53:18 -0400
Very cool, thanks for sharing! Is that smaller box the battery backup?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-05-30 21:12:57 -0400
Thanks for sharing! Yes, sometimes it takes the right wording to get the tech to understand what you’re talking about.
### Comment by Madhu on 2016-06-02 00:29:48 -0400
Hi All,
This has been such a great help understanding about networking. I had fios internet and TV over 5 years and using thier router all along and had 25/25 internet. Slowly my prices went high so cancelled services but my wife still.wanted fios TV and internet to she got her own. She got double bundle with TV and 100/100 internet. We picked router and STB from local fios store but verizon said technician has to come and install since its 100/100 internet and self install package is only for 50/50. And tech is coming two weeks later and we needed internet right away. So we got G1100 fios router and downgraded to 50/50 to do self installation. All working fine, till tech comes out and activate line to 100/100 in 2 weeks. However i want to get rid of $10 charge for AC1750 router they providing. I have my own Onhub or Netgear AC1900 i want to use. The fios provided router is connected via coax and also line marked as main going to WAN. So is it possible that both coac and ethernet are active? I got STB connected via coax and not setup yet..but since i had it 2 weeks ago and still working. At this point my wife still wanted TV and internet. She dont care abt what router we use. But i want to.use my Onhub or Netgear AC1900. Is it possible to have coax for TV and ethernet for my router to be active?. I knew i risk of loosing some features on STB if i use my own router. I dont want to call fios and.explain this situation and get rejected. Rather i wait for.tech to come and then talk to him and request. If all it comes to choose i will remove TV service and have internet only and have chromecast and use other services. What you think.is best way to deal the situation.
Sorry for giving a long explanation
### Comment by Nick on 2016-06-02 16:57:06 -0400
This article was a huge help, thank you so much! I live in an apt building that already uses the ONT port so it was just as simple as releasing the DHCP lease and plugging in the new router. There is an extra $10 a month that can now be saved, all while using a better router.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-06-03 09:24:07 -0400
Nice! Glad to help!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-06-03 09:45:55 -0400
Coax and ethernet cannot be active on the ONT at the same time, so if they’re both running to the ONT, I’d bet the Coax is active.
I’d recommend this site as a guide. Specifically, you’ll want to look at options 6 and 7. I **think** you can use your router as the primary (with ethernet from ONT to your router), then plug the FiOS router into your router.
### Comment by Nona on 2016-07-19 17:17:44 -0400
So, I just got this email today from Veriz.: “Our records indicate that you have an older model router that is being discontinued. If you do plan to keep using your current router, we will begin billing, on 8.29.16, a monthly Router Maintenance Charge of $2.80 (plus taxes), to ensure we deliver the best support. You also have the option to upgrade to a certified, pre-owned Fios Advanced Wi-Fi Router. It’s a one-time purchase of $59.99 (plus taxes) with free shipping and handling for a limited time. This is a great opportunity to enhance your Fios experience with faster Wi-Fi speeds.”
Who cares if the router model is from 2008? (It’s the Action-tec MI424-WR, coax, & we’ve had no issues router-wise since installation.) So what if it’s being “discontinued”? I mean, in what way are they doing anything at all to justify a monthly Router Maintenance Charge? How could I possibly be getting “faster speeds” if my up/down plan and price isn’t changing at all? There’s text at the bottom that says “Advertisement” and “Promotional,” but I don’t understand being told I have to pay monthly for an older router’s laughable “maintenance,” or shell out for a newer router when nothing is really changing on my end. (Yes, I understand Veriz. is voraciou$.)
Having home phone & internet only, can I escape their threats/entreaties with a router of my own, or should I just submit?
### Comment by Alex on 2016-07-20 12:49:05 -0400
According to the Verizon tech doing my install today, all installs use ethernet now, even the low speed ones. They actually have to call in to get it set up through coax now. He told me he got in trouble for using MoCA on a 15 Mbit install… strange.
I didn’t have any luck getting my C9 to connect without spoofing the MAC, though. I’m not renting anyway so I’ll give the G1100 a chance. It happily pushes the full 150/150 over 5G and that’s all I care about.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-20 12:54:56 -0400
Cool, I didn’t know that they switched to ethernet! Maybe it’s cheaper/easier for them?
### Comment by Alex on 2016-07-20 13:07:16 -0400
It used to be required above 100, I’m guessing it’s easier to just use ethernet full stop so that people can be upgraded later without having to send out a tech.
Also I have already switched back to the C9. Had to clone the MAC, but using the G1100’s interface to do port forwarding and manual DHCP assignment is a pain, and the NAS wouldn’t play ball without it.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-20 13:14:06 -0400
I’d imagine the G1100 wouldn’t have a nice interface. Are you internet-only? Asking because I’m curious if you are using the G1100 to get the DVR/menu for the TVs.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-20 14:03:54 -0400
I’d be willing to bet they want to phase-out support for your model, as it’s easier to train the techs to only support the latest and greatest. As far as “faster speeds”, they’re talking about your WiFi speed, not the up/down speed you get from them. I think you’ll need to call them and talk to someone.
### Comment by Kurt Ryan on 2016-07-20 16:00:51 -0400
I just received this same message.
Yes, there are expenses for Verizon to continue supporting old hardware. The problem is that Verizon used to include a router at no additional cost as part of the FiOS service. Obviously, they don’t want to do that any longer. Logan is partially correct, in that the only thing that will immediately change with an upgraded FiOS router is your WiFi speed. However, the upgraded router will also make it possible to handle WAN speeds over 100Mbps, which your current router can’t. Of course, that would require a further upgrade to your service and as you noted, cost more money.
The fundamental problem here is that Verizon only supports their own routers. They can attach to CPE routers from the network side and set parameters to assist in support. So any attempt to use your own “generic” router may be fraught with issues. Further, although I only skimmed this rather long thread, the MOCA interface is used to deliver TV programming information and pay-per-view data between the router and the set-top boxes. This is done independently of the cable between the ONT and the router.
Anyhow, what I’m going to do is argue with Verizon that they must support my personal router and MOCA interface setup. I don’t know how successful I’m going to be. (I’m planning to build my own MOCA interface, but that’s another story).
### Comment by Nona on 2016-07-20 19:17:42 -0400
Sry for ranting. Contacting them was inevitable, but I’m requesting a free “Actiontec Rev. I” (old, but still supported without fee) on Verizon Direct (https://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzdirect). We’ll see.
### Comment by ChrisD on 2016-07-23 15:43:02 -0400
I just made the switch basically the same as you did Logan (TPLINK C7). Super easy and smooth with the directions you provided here. I do have an issue that I hope someone can answer for me though. My speeds were 25/25 before switching and are still the same (no service change) but the speed test is telling me 5/5 now…. Am I missing something like a setting on my router or did the speed throttle down because verizon wants me to use their router!!!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-24 13:35:00 -0400
Chris, are you still having an issue? My speeds were slower than advertised for about 24hrs after the switch, but they went back to normal shortly after. I doubt there’s a setting on the router, and I doubt Verizon is throttling you. Also, make sure you’re testing on wired, not wireless.
### Comment by ChrisD on 2016-07-24 16:18:38 -0400
Thanks for responding, it has actually gotten worse! I am now running less than 1mbps with full signal 10 feet from the router. I thought I read something somewhere that I could “do \____ to my router to allow for it’s full potential”. Not sure but 0.48/0.60 are not the speeds I am looking for, even on wireless.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-24 20:57:44 -0400
Chris,
I would definitely try running wired instead of wireless, just to be sure. Also try a few different speed tests (1,2,3). Are you using the stock firmware on the C7, or custom firmware? Is the firmware up to date? I’m almost 99.999% positive there’s no magic setting that you’re missing. If you have a decent firewall on your computer, you could connect it directly to the ONT and see if you get full speeds from there…
### Comment by ChrisD on 2016-07-25 10:49:36 -0400
Seems that maybe there was a 48 hour wait time (instead of 24) because it is up to 25/25 now. I did re position the antennas on the router though…
I am running stock firmware on the C7 and it is up to date. Now that I know it is capable of full speeds I shouldn’t have to directly connect to the ONT or hard wire it. Maybe there was just a ton of traffic on the fiber in my community yesterday afternoon… who knows! Ill just keep my fingers crossed it stays this way. Either way if I can keep these speeds up for more than half the day it performs better than my verizon router did so I cant complain. Thanks!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-25 13:03:49 -0400
Weird that it took so long, but glad it’s working!
### Comment by Brandon on 2016-07-28 21:36:13 -0400
I’m nearing the end of my home remodel. I had Verizon switch my internet service to the Ethernet port (coax for directv), but like everyone else, new router wouldn’t work. Had lunch with my buddy at work today and he said to connect the new router and wait a few hours. “Set it, and forget it.”
It’s working with my custom cat6 cable. Woo-hoo.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-29 09:35:01 -0400
Good to hear, thanks for sharing!
### Comment by Christina on 2016-07-29 23:43:13 -0400
Hello,
I am a triple newbie to this but hoping someone can help. I have been using Verizon Fios with 75/75 speeds on their quantum router, but since installing another hub for the automated security system, and running 15 different devices (4 ethernet straight to quantum router) and the rest wirelessly, I am experiencing lag on my smart tv/firestick (furthest from the router and upstairs) and the kids are getting the same on ps4 and xbox1. At any given time there are multiple devices (both wired and wirelessly) running so my plan was to get a wi fi extender and up the speeds. I just upgraded to 100/100, but really want to do 150/150 so I can stream, upload movies, download files, power mobile devices wirelessly, etc, even when both kids are on their games. I thought with an extender for the wifi, I’d be all set. However, I have this security hub that pulls major bandwith, and I got to thinking that perhaps in addition to more bandwith I need a more powerful router. I ended up purchasing a Linksys Max Stream AC5400 MU-MIMO Gigabit router, but since it does NOT have a modem inside, I wanted to use the quantum router as the modem and make the Linksys primary. I have a few questions that I hope someone can help with:
– I have Direct TV and believe that my house is wired for coax instead of ethernet. How can I tell if this is indeed the case?
-How can I very simply and plainly switch my quantum router off to just operate as the modem and let the Linksys be the router? Does this include “cloning” the MAC address to do so?
-A tech is scheduled to come out to do the install for the further upgrade to 150 next week – if I configure my router as described above will he need to do something to it – i.e. will his install mess up my configuration?
-When he comes out, do I need to ask for Ethernet installation as well? I purchased the new router to hedge against technology so that it would be able to handle speeds well beyond anything that I am using now in the future. Any advice would be appreciated.
Please forgive me if all of these questions have been answered here already; I just want to ensure that I’m setting this up correctly. Your expertise would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance!!
### Comment by Christina on 2016-07-29 23:46:03 -0400
By the way, I’m using Verizon fios for internet and phone only, direct tv for tv.
### Comment by Christina on 2016-07-29 23:49:38 -0400
Not sure if this helps but I have both coax and CAT5 cable at the wall.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-07-30 10:50:50 -0400
Hi Christina,
A few things, only in order as I thought of them…
1) You said you upgraded from 75/75 to 100/100. Did that help the slowness at all?
2) Is the security hub wired or wireless? If possible, I’d highly recommend you use wired for it, since that will give it a 1Gbps connection (which would be almost impossible to saturate). The key here is going to be getting as many big devices (Xbox, security system, etc…) off wifi as possible.
3) A Wi-Fi extender will provide only half the bandwidth to your devices (since it uses one half of the bandwidth to pickup the signal and the other half to repeat it). For example, if you have 100/100 coming to your router that uses 802.11n wifi, maybe it will provide 30Mbps of wifi bandwidth. Then, that will be halved at the first repeater to only 15/15 for your devices. Then, if that repeater is extended with another repeater, that bandwidth will be halved to 7.5/7.5, and so on. If possible, you should run Cat5e or Cat6 around your house and setup **wired** repeaters (instead of wireless), which will be able to give you much better speeds. If that’s not possible, you can also look into powerline adapters, which use your home’s electrical wires as ethernet lines, allowing you to put a wired repeater anywhere there is an electric plug. Powerline adapters also provide limited bandwidth, but are better than wireless repeaters.
4) FiOS only requires a “modem” (i.e., the Quantum router) if your ONT is using coax instead of ethernet. If you can (or if the tech can), run ethernet from the ONT to your router and don’t use the Quantum router at all. Since you don’t have TV, I don’t see any reason for you to be using it (I don’t think the phone setup requires it). This way, it will go ONT—ethernet–>your router, as opposed to ONT—coax–>Quantum router—ethernet–>your router.
To answer your questions…
1) If you have DirecTV, more than likely you have coax running through your house. However, that signal has nothing to do with your internet signal, so there’s no reason to worry about it. Here is a picture of coax (red) vs ethernet (blue), if you want to check and see.
2) As I said earlier, you can probably remove the Quantum router altogether. But if you can’t, you would set it up like this: ONT—coax–>Quantum router—ethernet–>your router. Since it’s all 1Gbps, your router would have access to 100% of the speed the Quantum router did (you wouldn’t see any loss). You’re putting one router behind another (this is called being double NAT’ed), so no MAC cloning is necessary.
3) If the tech is coming on site for the 150/150 install next week, I bet he’s going to run ethernet from your ONT to your router, since the 100/100 mark is usually where ethernet starts to out-perform coax. If he does that, you can ask him about using your router instead of the Quantum (since you only need the Quantum to convert coax to ethernet anyways). If you use your router, you **may** need to clone the MAC of the Quantum onto your router’s WAN port (try it without it first). You’ll need Google for instructions, the process is different for every router.
4) As I said above, if he’s coming on site, I’d be willing to bet he’s doing it to install ethernet. However, if he’s not, I would definitely ask for it. Ethernet is the way of the future and some commenters have said Verizon is using ethernet by default now.
Hope this helped. Let me know if you have any more questions.
### Comment by Tuesday on 2016-08-01 11:06:59 -0400
I finally got around to doing this myself. While I had no luck getting an actual human on Verizon CS number, I was able to get help through their Twitter account (@VerizonSupport). The support staff behind their Twitter account was very helpful and responsive.
Also, after ONT was switched over to Ethernet, I had to reset my router to default setting before it started pulling an IP address (just power cycling wouldn’t do it).
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-01 11:33:12 -0400
Did they switch your ONT to ethernet via Twitter? That’s interesting…
Glad you got it working!
### Comment by Tuesday on 2016-08-01 14:03:37 -0400
I had posted about being put on hold while calling Verizon CS (and not actually getting any human) and they (@VerizonSupport) contacted me to see if I still needed help. FWIW, my post wasn’t directed at them or had any relevant hashtags. Anyhow, after few DM interactions with them, they had switched over my ONT to ethernet. Also, from my first DM to them requesting the ONT switch, the whole process took less then 20 minutes.
### Comment by Christina on 2016-08-02 23:42:09 -0400
Hi! Thank you so much for responding!! My last question…..since my router requires a modem, it looks like I’m stuck using the FIOS router as the modem. And, sorry to sound like an idiot, would I need to get modem to replace the FIOS router altogether?
To answer your questions, I only experience spurts in speed (with my personal router delivering vs. the FIOS router), and then that’s to wireless devices within different locations throughout the house. My security hub, Dtv, and routers are all hardwired; but with the gaming devices they are running off of the wireless connections since they are all over the house. For instance the Xbox 1 in my bedroom was being used originally as a wifi amplifier (don’t know if there’s such a thing but my Netflix and Amazon streaming movies worked flawlessly without interruption when using the Xbox1 as the streaming device vs. the smart TV it is hooked up to). Then, my son has the PS4 in his bedroom and has a pretty good wireless connection, along with Netflix). My other son, who is on punishment for the summer, normally has his Xbox1 in his room on a wireless connection but I haven’t even bothered with testing his since he’s on punishment, and lastly, we are using an older xbox 360 as the streaming device in the family room, also wirelessly. The only real benefit I’ve seen is that I’ve been able to put the gaming devices on the Linksys router, and have kept the computers and printers on the FIOS network, to give some separation (and in my mind less ability to interrupt the signal). But since it’s the same signal, I guess there’s a division of the signal among devices anyway….is that correct? This Linksys router claims to push to same full signal to each device, no matter the number on the network. Weird thing is, I get better speeds wirelessly than I do wired. But again, none of the devices is accessing the Linksys router via a wired hookup…it’s just impossible given how we are using these devices. The range seems to have improved, and the good thing with my router is that it shows you the range within the house and how far inside/outside the devices appear within the wifi signal range. Do you think the tech will have a problem setting me up as per your instructions? Also, if I do it that way, will I in essence “lose” the second network? I want to take full advantage of the 150/150 and get rid of the FIOS router, but it looks like I’m stuck with it unless I purchase a modem….otherwise I’ll be out of luck with my wifi. Any additional information you could provide would be great! Please and thank you in advance:)
### Comment by Christina on 2016-08-02 23:44:07 -0400
Also, I called Verizon and asked that they switch me from coax to ethernet; apparently they tried and said that I didn’t have the set up in my house to do so. It was built in 2008 and I have CAT5 in the house; apparently it just maybe that its not at the ONT.
### Comment by Christina on 2016-08-02 23:50:15 -0400
Sorry for the multiple questions, but I want to make sure I understand you correctly….basically, if I get the ethernet at the ONT, I wont need to purchase a modem for my modem-less router to work?? I certainly hope this is the case!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-03 11:46:25 -0400
Correct. If you get ethernet at the ONT, you wan’t need the FiOS router or a modem, since your Linksys router will plug directly into the ONT.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-03 11:47:30 -0400
Make sure you have a ethernet cable running from the ONT to your router, otherwise when they switch you, you’ll lose your internet signal.
I think your best bet is to talk to the tech when he comes. Ask him why they couldn’t switch you, and ask him if he can have you switched while he’s there.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-03 14:43:38 -0400
You can’t go out to BestBuy and purchase a regular modem and expect it to work with FiOS. The only reason for the FiOS router is to convert the coax signal into ethernet signal. If you get the ONT switched to ethernet, you don’t need the FiOS router at all (unless you have FiOS TV).
Having the gaming devices on the Linksys router and computers on the FiOS router might make them faster, since they’re not all competing for resources (the same wireless signal). It’s not the most elegant solution, but it certainly works.
You said you get better speeds on wireless than wired? If so, something is definitely wrong with your setup…
As I said in a different comment, your best bet is to talk to the tech when he comes. Ask him to switch your ONT to ethernet, then you can setup your router as the primary router (and ditch the FiOS router). As long as your ONT has an ethernet port on it, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to use it.
### Comment by Christina on 2016-08-03 15:38:00 -0400
YAY!!! Thank you for this clarification, I really appreciate it:)
### Comment by Christina on 2016-08-03 15:39:35 -0400
Sounds like a plan….thanks again. And I’ll get the tech (hopefully) to check my setup to ensure things are working correctly so I can achieve speeds wired as I do wirelessly.
### Comment by Christina on 2016-08-03 15:40:02 -0400
Ok. I will do that.
### Comment by Dave K on 2016-08-05 21:00:53 -0400
I have the same ONT that ChrisB mentioned a couple months back (http://imgur.com/a/Q8EXV), so there’s no coax anymore, only ethernet. When I tried connecting my router to the ONT, I did not get an IP. I had released the IP from the Verizon router first, I tried cloning the MAC, but I never contacted Verizon to have them do anything. Do I still need to contact them to have them do something on their end to get my own router working?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-05 21:10:36 -0400
You shouldn’t need to. However, some users have tried resetting their router, or just waiting 24hrs and it eventually works. You can contact Verizon to see if they see your device from the ONT.
### Comment by Gulfstream on 2016-08-10 15:19:41 -0400
HI… I read all the different settings .. One question I have…. I have TV and Internet services with verizon and I have coax cable in my house. My router is Actiontec MI424WR ver I … mean I can not use my own router?? and I have my own wireless router.. So I am correct?? Thanks in advance
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-11 09:12:49 -0400
I’m not an expert (since I’m internet only), but I believe you can use your router (as the primary), as long as the FiOS router stays on your network (since it’s needed for the TV guide). You can use options 4-7 of this guide as a reference.
### Comment by Gulfstream on 2016-08-11 19:15:02 -0400
Logan… thank you for your responded is appreciated. !!!
### Comment by Jay on 2016-08-14 13:09:59 -0400
You rock! This worked perfectly. BTW, Verizon was already using ethernet so I didn’t have to call them. THANK YOU!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-15 09:37:45 -0400
Glad it worked!
### Comment by Robin on 2016-08-21 14:35:10 -0400
We have Verizon Fios (now Frontier) with an Actiontec router. We just bought a Netgear Nighthawk. After reading through all the posts, I want to make sure I’m understanding and doing this right.
I spoke to Frontier and they said to use an ethernet to connect the Nighthawk to the Actiontec. Does this defeat some of the speed of the Nighthawk by doing the double NAT?
The Actiontec is connected with an ethernet to the ONT. If I am reading everything correctly, I should be able to completely remove the Actiontec and replace it with the Nighthawk. I was planning on releasing the DHCP, unplugging Actiontec and then plugging in Nighthawk. I see that I may or may not need to clone MAC. If I need to, can I just copy it off the bottom of the Actiontec?
Thanks for all your help.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-21 22:13:11 -0400
Not really. Since it’s all gigabit ethernet (assuming your Actiontec is new enough), it’s pretty fast. However, the double NAT will give you problems if you forwards ports for anything (VPN, gaming, etc..), since you’ll need to forward them through the Actiontec first.
Yep, that’s pretty much it! Be prepared to wait a few hours, since it may take some time for Verizon to expire the old MAC and pickup your Nighthawk MAC. If it doesn’t work, you can always just put the Actiontec back and you’ll be back online.
FYI, this is for internet-only customers. If you have FiOS TV, the steps are a little different.
### Comment by Robert Fix on 2016-08-25 16:50:19 -0400
We are in the process of running cat6 from the ONT to an outlet by the router location. I’d like to know if the Archer D7 AC1750 is a better choice over the C7. $200 budget. Small rancher running wireless smart tv, wireless blu-ray, ethernet cat5 from router to desktop computer, wireless to laptop and cell phones. FIOS is trying to charge a monthly maintenance fee for old router …. so we want to purchase our own router. Thanks for so much great information.
### Comment by Mike H on 2016-08-25 22:40:43 -0400
Thanks for the help! I followed your instructions and had the ONT switched without a hitch. The tech support person was lovely and had the ONT changed over within a minute of my asking her to do it. She was very excited that I had already released my DHCP lease and plugged in ethernet. The new router (Archer C7) picked up an IP almost immediately, no cloning needed.
Thanks again.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-26 08:58:48 -0400
Nice! Glad when it works out that smoothly!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-08-26 09:25:04 -0400
From what I can see, the only difference between the two is that the D7 has a port for ADSL. If you’re using FiOS, you don’t need that. I’d imagine the C7 should do what you need to, however, there are some other good routers you should consider (here, here, and here). Not saying the C7 isn’t a good router, just want you to keep your options open.
### Comment by Robert Fix on 2016-09-01 15:03:41 -0400
Thanks … We now have the ActionTec switched over from coax to the Ethernet and will be shopping for a new router. Thanks for the router suggestions. Hopefully the new one will pick up the MAC address OK.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-09-02 08:39:18 -0400
Good luck, let me know what you pick!
### Comment by Jon on 2016-09-07 07:36:08 -0400
Took two calls and ~2.5 hours on the phone, but this all worked for me. Thanks!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-09-07 09:25:24 -0400
Sometimes it’s harder than others, but glad it worked out in the end!
### Comment by Jen on 2016-09-12 11:22:08 -0400
hi! What router do you recommend getting for Fios? I just recently became a verizon fios customer, but I didn’t want to lease their router. There will be a technician coming in to install it, but I need to get my own router. I’m pretty terrible at this… do you know any suggestions at good routers that won’t cost me an arm and a leg? I am an internet only gal, not TV or telephone in my verizon package. I will stream alot of video since I am using Hulu & Netflix to replace cable… Just want to make sure I’m purchasing the proper equipment before verizon comes to install my service.
Thanks so much for your help! 🙂
### Comment by Jen on 2016-09-12 11:29:11 -0400
Hi Logan, just saw your router suggestions in the previous comment… are there any other ones that are a little less expensive that are still very good? Thanks!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-09-12 11:43:37 -0400
Jen, it depends how you define “good”. Any of these devices are pretty solid (the C7 being the best value).
Also, check out /r/homenetworking.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-09-12 11:45:58 -0400
I just replied to your other post, [here][1]. Be prepared to spend about $100, anything else and you’ll probably end up getting what you pay for.
[1]: https://loganmarchione.com/2015/07/use-your-own-router-with-verizon-fios/#comment-76245
### Comment by Jen on 2016-09-12 11:46:42 -0400
better question – so I got the 50 over 50 service from verizon. which router do you recommend I use that’s great? The 3 that suggested earlier?
### Comment by Mike P on 2016-09-23 12:32:41 -0400
Logan, great information and threads! Question for you. Is it possible to use the coax output from the ONT and convert that signal to ethernet via a standard cable modem? Since I haven’t seen that referenced earlier, I assume it’s not possible. The only reason I’m asking is because of my current setup where I have Comcast cable running upstairs to my setup. It would be ONT—coax–>cable modem—ethernet–>my router.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-09-23 12:41:46 -0400
Mike, I don’t believe you can use a standard DOCSIS modem with FiOS. Comcast does not use a ONT like FiOS, since they are not fiber.
### Comment by Mike P on 2016-09-23 16:49:27 -0400
Logan, that is what I was thinking as well. No biggie, I have ethernet and cable throughout the house (benefit of totally remodeling some years back) so I can make it work. Thanks again!!
### Comment by Russ on 2016-09-30 08:08:21 -0400
Dear Logan,
I read through your original article and all of the questions posed to you and your responses. It’s good to know that there are good people like you that are willing to lend a hand just because they are knowledgeable and want to help. Having said all that, I am a dinosaur when it comes to this stuff. I have a router from FIOS (ACTIONTEC M1424) that I was told by a FIOS rep is outdated and should be upgraded. I am also being charge a new fee of $2.90 a month so FIOS can maintain the old router they gave me when I signed up. I can’t wrap my prehistoric brain around this. All I want to do is make sure I am getting what I am paying for from FIOS. I have the Triple Play (Internet, TV and Landline phone). As I have added devices (Smart TV’s, additional phones, Ipads) everything runs slower, even though I pay for faster service – 25/25. Simple question, I hope. Can I just go out and buy a new router that has nothing to do with Fios, bypass the Fios router and go on my merry way? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-09-30 19:22:07 -0400
Russ,
If you’re using the triple play, using your own router might be some work. Supposedly using your own router will break certain TV functions (VoD, guide, etc…). You can look at options 9 and 10 of this page for more information. Basically, if you have TV, you **need** to have an Actiontec router on your network. In that case, you’re going to have to purchase a router from Verizon anyways.
You have a few options (but all require getting a newer router from Verizon):
1) Purchase a pre-owned router from Verizon that is still within spec. I did this for my father and it was really easy. It’s a $59.99 one-time fee that they add to your monthly bill. Check out this page for more info.
2) Purchase the Quantum Gateway, which is a $200 one-time fee.
3) Find a pre-owned Actiontec router that Verizon supports on eBay. Then, make your personal router the primary and use a MoCA bridge to make the Actiontec the secondary (the DSLReports link I included above). This is the most complicated solution.
Also, in your case, the router might not be the bottleneck. 25/25 is pretty low for multiple devices in a house. If you’re really using bandwidth (steaming TV, movies, music, etc..), I’d suggest trying to up to 50/50 and see if that helps.
### Comment by BrianH on 2016-10-08 12:53:46 -0400
After running an Ethernet line from the ONT to the Verizon router (in addition to the existing coax), I called Verizon to switch my ONT to Ethernet. (My plan was to verify that Ethernet works, then switch over to my non-Verizon router). It took a while for the Verizon rep on the phone to understand what I wanted – even though I tried to explain it carefully. Eventually he put me on hold while he spoke to someone in tech support. When he came back on the line, he said “it’s done”. Sure enough the Coax LED was OFF on the Verizon router, and The Ethernet light was ON. So I thought that I was good to go. But I had no internet service. I called back an hour later and the rep (a different person) said that I was still on coax ONT service – even though my router showed Ethernet. She eventually made the switch, and I was up and running with the Verizon router on Ethernet. So I then unplugged the Verizon router and plugged in mine (Asus RT68R) – no luck. Only when I went into the Asus router menu and changed the WAN MAC to match the old Verizon router’s WAN MAC did it work. (I had specifically asked the rep if I needed to do this and she said ‘no’). So now it’s working! Before hanging up, I asked if the $2.80 would not appear on my bill – since that’s what started this issue. Oh – she said, you’ll have to return the old equipment if you don’t want to be charged for it. So she transferred me to another person who said that they would send me a prepaid box so that I could return it. After waiting a week, and no box, I called again – they confirmed that I need to return the router or they will charge me the monthly fee. They promised again to send a box. Several days later I got the box, and I will return it ASAP. Hopefully this will go without issue. Has anyone else been asked to return the old (the so called “obsolete”) router. Why would they want it back?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-10-10 09:01:13 -0400
Glad you got it working, it sometimes take a few calls to get it right. You technically don’t need to clone your MAC, you just need to have Verizon release your lease, then it will pick up the new MAC.
Weird, I didn’t have to return the old router. Is your router one of the grey ones? If so, it shouldn’t need returned (at least, mine didn’t). Supposedly they only want the red routers back (if you’re replacing it with your own router).
### Comment by BrianH on 2016-10-11 08:07:20 -0400
The router that I returned was the Actiontec MI424 (Rev E) – which their email said was “going obsolete” – whatever that means. If you think about it, everything we own is “going obsolete” the day after it’s built (or sooner). That doesn’t mean it needs to be replaced.
So why does Verizon want it back if it’s obsolete as they say? Will they re-sell it – or just throw it out.
I’m thinking that having my own router is actually more secure. It seems clear that Verizon has my WiFi password (I used to be able to see it in the Fios mobile App) but now the app says “unable to retrieve your wifi info at this time”. Sounds like Verizon has a back-door into the Actiontec router and has access to the WiFi password. Hope they don’t have a breach of their database!
As for releasing the MAC – is that another call to Verizon – or can I do it myself? Might be good to know in the future.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-10-11 15:43:39 -0400
I was under the impression they’ll throw it out. I think you should call back and confirm that it really does need to go back. But, if you already have the return box, might just be easier to return it…
Agree with the security portion! That’s why I switched. They funnel all sorts of data back home and I wasn’t a fan of that.
I was able to release the MAC myself, via the phone. I told the automated troubleshooting tool (on the phone) that my issue was related to my recent order and it said something like “resetting your connection” and part of that process was releasing the lease. You can do it yourself (without the phone), but you need to do it through the Actiontec web GUI (your personal router probably doesn’t have that button).
### Comment by Rick in Virginia on 2016-10-28 09:52:46 -0400
Need advice on installing my TP-Link TL-R470T+ router in between the ONT and exsisting Fios provided router. Poor WiFi coverage in my basement and no way to run a cable up to the Fios router neatly has created this question. Good news is the WAN cable from the ONT runs through the basement. Can I bridge the WAN cable via the TP-Link router so it still supports the Fios router upstairs and then use the LAN side of the new router to access the internet?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-10-28 13:23:56 -0400
That shouldn’t be an issue, assuming you’re internet-only.
Yes, you’ll go ONT –> TP-Link –> FiOS router. The rest of your devices will connect to either router, it just depends how you setup the wireless. I think you can make the FiOS router a DHCP repeater (so the TP-Link is the “master” router) and then setup the WiFi to use the same username/password and you’ll be able to roam across either AP.
### Comment by TomS on 2016-11-02 16:09:41 -0400
I wanted to share make my experience of switching from comcast to verizon fits. I ran an ethernet cable from where I wanted the technician to install their optical interface to the location of my router. The router I purchased is the linksys wrt1900ac (v1). I was anticipating having to plead with the technician to enable the ethernet port instead of the coax port and not installing their router. I don’t have TV or phone service. Surprisingly the guy said that is what he was going to do anyway. After he connected his “box” and verified it was working properly I unplugged the router from comcast modem and plugged the ethernet cable form the verizon interface box into the linksys wan port. I was able to connect to the internet immediately. The whole process was as smooth as I could have imagined. I get the full 100 down and 100 up connection. The next step will be to load dd-wrt software onto the linksys router, which I am hopping will stop the occasional loss of wan connection (about 1 minute drop). I tested a netgear wrnd4300 router (had to clone MAC to make the switch between the routers quickly) with latest dd-wrt build and it worked reliably. I prefer the linksys router.
### Comment by Giri on 2016-11-02 17:39:12 -0400
Logan,
Sorry if this question has been answered already.
I am moving into an apartment that has FIOS (ethernet pre-wired). All I need is just to plug in a router and get going as I need only Internet. But Verizon is forcing me to buy / rent a router (Actiontec rev I or the newer gateway model).
I am considering to rent the gateway for one month, let verizon setup the connection, swap it with my ASUS router, test my router for stability and the speed over couple weeks. If this setup works, I am planning to return the verizon router.
Please help me understand if this is a workable option or would I have no other option and continue with verizon’s router ?
Thanks for your reply.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-11-03 09:08:10 -0400
Glad to hear it went smoothly! I’ve heard if you sign up for 100/100 service, they do ethernet by default. Let me know how DD-WRT runs on your Linksys!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-11-03 09:17:32 -0400
If you’re internet-only, there’s no reason to use Verizon’s router. When the tech comes out to install/setup your service, ask him to use your own router. It’s super easy, since it’s already wired with ethernet, and the tech will be there if he needs to release your DHCP lease. I wouldn’t even both renting their router for one month.
### Comment by Giri on 2016-11-04 14:02:46 -0400
Thanks for your reply. I would love to do that, but Verizon online order page does not allow me to go further without adding a Router. I am being presented two options – to rent a router from verizon or confirm that I have the Actiontec rev I or the newer gateway model router that I own.
I presume that by confirming that I have the Actiontec rev I or the newer gateway model router and not option for the home installation option by the technician, I dont have an option to make this work.
So i believe my option is to either rent the router for a month (do my tests without verizon router during the one month period) or pay more for the home install option and get the technician over at the house and then plead with him to allow my existing router to be used directly.
Dont know if verizon would find it out at a later date that I dont have their router at my home wheneven I might call them to fix issues at a future date.
Confused at what I should be doing……
### Comment by Logan on 2016-11-04 21:50:52 -0400
Can you call them and explain the situation? I’d be willing to bet they can set it up from their end. If not, then you might need to rent it for 1 month but you should be able to switch it out.
### Comment by Wayne on 2016-11-10 08:17:41 -0500
I have had FIOS since it first became available. I also have ethernet to the ONT. It was, for a long time, pppoe. I could swap out the verizon router to my own Debian Linux box with Shorewall router. The other night, Verizon switched my connection to DHCP and my Shorewall router would no longer connect, so I put the Verizon Actiontec router back on to see if it would work and then discovered it was now DHCP, so I fixed up the Shorewall router back to DHCP, but it would still not connect.
Rather than clone the MAC address in the Shorewall box, I reconnected the Actiontec router and cloned its MAC address to be the same as my Shorewall MAC address. Naturally the Actiontec would no longer connect, so I called the automated tech support. They reset something on their end and had me reboot the router. The Actiontec router then connected using new cloned MAC address. Now, when I switched back to my Shorewall router, it connects just fine.
I assume their equipment must have MAC tables and just requires them to clear it. So my assumption is the MAC address is not anything in particular, just whatever the original connection MAC was.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-11-10 08:40:53 -0500
Good to hear you got it working, I didn’t know they used PPPoE. But I agree with you, I think they keep a history of MAC addresses on your account and it sometimes just needs cleared out.
### Comment by Wayne on 2016-11-10 09:58:55 -0500
No, I don’t think they keep MAC address history on your account. They are just mac addresses in the DHCP lease files or ARP tables in their routers. Hence they just reset the lease or the ARP tables.
### Comment by Frederick Catalano on 2016-11-13 09:30:52 -0500
My advise is to not purchase the Quantum Gateway. It has a reputation of dropping connection. I can’t find a resolution.
### Comment by Logan on 2016-11-13 20:24:16 -0500
Are you not able to switch to your own router?
### Comment by Tim on 2016-12-06 20:02:43 -0500
Followed instructions and everything went fine. I wasn’t able to connect to internet while on the phone with verizon but that was because I needed to set up the router before it would let me access the internet. Thanks for this article.
### Comment by Joe on 2016-12-07 18:42:06 -0500
Do you have to then purchase the router from FIOS in the first place?
### Comment by Logan on 2016-12-08 08:43:14 -0500
Glad it worked out!
### Comment by Logan on 2016-12-08 08:45:06 -0500
I can’t get confirmation on that. Some people are saying yes, others are saying no. I would call Verizon and ask them to be 100% sure, because in the end, it’s up to them anyway.
### Comment by dfk70 on 2017-01-07 14:06:58 -0500
Just made the switch. The hardest part was waiting for the Verizon rep. Completely painless. Thanks!
### Comment by Logan on 2017-01-08 10:26:46 -0500
Glad to hear!
### Comment by Blake on 2017-01-20 11:09:23 -0500
Thank you for this excellent writeup. Question: I used to have FIOS with internet and coax direct to the TV, no actiontec box. I moved to comcast when fios jacked up their prices. two years later I’m back to them again as comcast did the same and fios had a promotion. However now I’m confused (surprise surprise). They are including basic channels in HD for $9/month which is fine by me with Super Bowl and March madness soon after. Will the coax get the signal from the ONT box plus the wired connection to my router? I thought it was one or the other but I know it worked somehow last time. Thanks a bunch!
### Comment by Logan on 2017-01-22 11:12:35 -0500
Glad to help!
I’m not sure how you were setup last time, but from what I know, the output from the ONT can only be coax **or** ethernet, not both.
### Comment by Asa on 2017-02-08 11:37:23 -0500
Hey Logan,
Great write up! I have a question: I’m a fios internet only customer.
I recently upgraded my fios speeds to 150/150. I already have ethernet cable from ONT to their gateway router. I’m planning on swapping their router for the nighthawk ac1900. Would it be as easy as me unplugging the ethernet from the fios router into the nighthawk?
Thanks again!!
### Comment by Logan on 2017-02-08 12:16:50 -0500
Asa,
Yep, that’s basically it. You might need to call Verizon to release your DHCP lease though.
### Comment by Asa on 2017-02-08 13:13:12 -0500
Perfect! Should I call before I plug in the new router? Thanks again!
### Comment by Asa on 2017-02-08 13:14:44 -0500
Wound I be able to release the DHCP myself? Sorry for all these questions.
### Comment by Logan on 2017-02-08 13:15:36 -0500
I would plug in the new router first, and if it doesn’t work, then call right after. That way, they can tell you if they see a connection and if needed, release the lease for you.
### Comment by Logan on 2017-02-08 13:16:23 -0500
Yes, there is an option in the Actiontec settings but I have found it unreliable.
### Comment by Asa on 2017-02-08 14:52:42 -0500
Ohh. I’ll just call Verizon. Hey, thanks again!
### Comment by Logan on 2017-02-08 18:07:33 -0500
Let me know how it goes!
### Comment by SaN on 2017-02-16 15:04:50 -0500
Thanks for the informative write up. Recently changed over to Fios and knowing beforehand that Eth needed to be provisioned (only internet through Fios) made things very easy. Once the Tech had provisioned Eth, he insisted that I had to use a Verizon Gateway, (Rental) atleast for the first month because he was not authorized to set up a new connection using customer supplied router. No problem. He set up the Gateway and everything was good. Original plan was to keep the Gateway for a few days and then send it back before the first month was over so as not to get charged rent for the second month. I guess the techie in me took over a few minutes after the Technician left. I reset the lease via the Gateway web interface and switched out to my own router (no modem). Voila – everything worked at or faster than designated speeds of 100mbps. The best part was that since Gateway did not show up online to Verizon, there was no rental every charged. I still intend to resend it back, but unfortunately since it was never added or registered to my account, they have no basis to accept it back. I will keep it for times when (and if) I need a Tech to come to my place for any troubleshooting because the first one made it clear that if the line does not have V-Gateway attached, the tech will not troubleshoot it from within the house. Fine with me.
Thank you again.
### Comment by SaN on 2017-02-16 15:09:37 -0500
For all those who have questions about releasing the DHCP lease from Verizon to swap out your router, one failsafe way that has worked for me multiple times (if you are not in a hurry) is to disconnect the router at night – by next morning the lease is released and you can attach a new router.
### Comment by Logan on 2017-02-16 17:00:38 -0500
Thanks for sharing! I would just double check in a couple weeks that you don’t need to send the router back.
### Comment by SaN on 2017-02-17 07:05:48 -0500
Logan, thanks for your comment above. The installation took place about 6 months ago (so its confirmed that the router doesn’t need to go back, especially since they have no way of accepting it back since it never showed up against my account at all). I am just late at thanking you.
### Comment by Charles Moore on 2017-02-20 22:27:10 -0500
When changing to an internet-only solution with Verizon, would it be possible to use a MoCA to Ethernet adapter (Actiontec makes one) to change the FIOS COAX connection (from the ONT) to Ethernet, and then run the Ethernet cable to your own router? If it’s possible, this would provide an easy path back to FIOS TV at some later date and avoid getting Verizon tech support overly involved.
### Comment by Logan on 2017-02-22 14:54:07 -0500
Hmmm, to be honest, I don’t know. I’m not sure if the MoCA adapter can be the first device off the ONT, or if the router needs to be first. My thinking is, would the MoCA device get an IP? If so, where would it get it from (since the router isn’t handing them out)? I would ask on DSL Reports forums.
### Comment by Vineet Bhardwaj on 2017-03-20 17:20:58 -0400
Thanks for the great right up. My verizon ONT box is situated in a guest bedroom closet and I plan on having my non verizon (ASUS) router in the living room which is on the same floor of the closet. Question- Do I have to physically run the Ethernet wire from the ONT port to the WAN port of the router? Or does it gets connected behind the walls as part of the existing verizon connection/ setup.
Thanks, Vineet
### Comment by Logan on 2017-03-21 10:45:21 -0400
If you want to use your Asus router as the primary router, you need to use ethernet. If your existing setup already uses ethernet in the walls, you can use that cable. But if it uses coax, you need to run an ethernet cable.
### Comment by Chutuo on 2017-03-29 21:17:05 -0400
Thank you,
Just hooked up an AZUS Router and could not be happier.
### Comment by Logan on 2017-03-29 21:29:55 -0400
Glad to help!
### Comment by Othromas on 2017-04-15 16:20:40 -0400
Perhaps a very stupid question: I’m moving soon to an area served by Fios and I want to give it a try. We’re currently using a Time Capsule as our wireless router and a cable modem I bought several years ago to get a better device than what the company was offering and ultimately save money. I’d like to do the same in this case, but what I’m wondering is do I need to get another wireless router? The Time Capsule is a 4th gen (802.11n). We’re moving to a 3 story townhouse so the AC protocol might be a better choice… Thoughts? What router would you recommend? I’m also not sure where the ONT box is located yet so I don’t know exactly how I’m going to set things up yet. Planning to get the proprietary router for a month to make sure I can clone it and troubleshoot as needed, then send it back when I have my router set up correctly. I’ll keep the TC in any case since I can turn it into a external hard drive attached to the network via Bridge mode.
I know you’ve linked to them previously, but do you have any painfully specific instructions on MAC cloning (I’m assuming a few things have changed since you started this thread)? I have played with my network settings before so I’m not afraid of doing any of it, but I tend to need to follow directions via Google search results or awesome sites like yours. I appreciate the time you’ve put into this – thank you!
### Comment by Logan on 2017-04-16 19:09:46 -0400
No such thing as a stupid question!
First off, 802.11ac does **not** go through walls/concrete better than 802.11n. My suggestion is to use 802.11n in the 5GHz range. Reason being, less devices use 5GHz by default, so that spectrum is usually less crowded. Personally, I make two WiFi networks on my router: one in the 2.4GHz range, and one in the 5GHz range, then let the clients connect to whichever has better signal. That being said, 802.11ac is blazing fast if you have a direct line of sight to the AP with no walls in the way.
I also live in a three story townhouse. The ONT is in the basement, router/switch/AP are on floor one, and my office is on floor three. I have found at 802.11ac does not give me great signal up on the third floor, but I have full strength 802.11n in both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz ranges.
Your Time Capsule is probably still 10x better than the standard FiOS Actiontec router, so if it still works, I’d use that. See if it supports the 5GHz range and if you can setup a 2nd WiFi network in that part of the spectrum. Also, if you ask the technician, they might do the install with your Time Capsule from day one, instead of having to use the Actiontec for a month and sending it back.
Cloning the MAC is as easy as
Writing down your old MAC (from the Actiontec)
Going into your router and updating the MAC of the WAN port to be the MAC of the Actiontec
However, those instructions are different for each make/model of router. I’ve never use a Time Capsule before, but according to this, the MAC cannot be changed. So it sounds like cloning is not an option with the Time Capsule, so you should try to get the technician to use the Time Capsule (with its correct MAC address) from day one if you can.
### Comment by John on 2017-04-24 10:45:43 -0400
Hi Logan, I never got back to you. Sorry.
I ended up using the old Actiontec and it worked fine. I had to set aside the ASUS RT-AC66U Dual-Band Wireless-AC1750 Gigabit Router with great remorse.
As someone who looks through forum posts when trying to solve an issue, here is what I learned:
When trying to use your own router with an initial Verizon installation; don’t. Instead, rent their Actiontec or Quantum router for one month and activate your internet. I tried everything and was unable to activate the internet on the Asus router. Once your internet is activated, you can clone the MAC address (if necessary) and use your own router. Then you can cancel your Actiontec/Quantum router rental and save/simultaneously improve your home networking experience.
Finally, having scoured the internet on this topic, I firmly believe that this site is the most helpful when endeavoring to switch to your own router while using Verizon Fios.
### Comment by drew on 2017-04-24 15:03:28 -0400
Everything but my VPN phone works fine. I too used an Archer C7 and I have an Avaya VPN hard phone. My PC has no problems VPN’ing in. If I plug phone straight into the Optical Network Terminal data it works fine. It will reach my work gateway, register with that, and then register with the phone system as an ip-phone.
But If I put the Archer in between the phone and FIOS ONT, the registering with the Avaya Pbx seems to fail. It’ll reg with the media gateway but just spins its wheels trying to reg to the pbx. Almost like something is failing trying to come back. Fooled with a few Archer settings but no expert by any means.
Otherwise great article and glad to be away from TWC roadrunner service.
### Comment by Logan on 2017-04-30 00:38:02 -0400
Sorry it didn’t work out. So after you setup the old Actiontec, did you (or do you have plans to) switch to the Asus?
### Comment by Logan on 2017-04-30 00:40:18 -0400
It sounds like there’s a missing setting somewhere in the Archer. I’m not an expert on VoIP, so I’m not sure what look for, sorry…
### Comment by John on 2017-05-01 14:27:17 -0400
I just moved again. Got 300 up and down, so I desperately want to move away from the crappy Verizon routers. I’m going to try exactly that. Activate on the Actiontec then switch to the Asus (I took both from my old place). The Verizon guy is here as I post this via my phone. I’ll report back on how it goes. If it doesn’t work, I’ll reread this entire page for the millionth time and hope to spot my mistake.
### Comment by Logan on 2017-05-01 15:18:51 -0400
Good luck!
### Comment by John on 2017-05-01 15:23:25 -0400
The Verizon guy activated it on his tablet for me, I didn’t even have to use the old actiontek. Plugged in the asus and it worked like a charm. Super relieved.
Speed tests show 300+ over wifi!
Thanks for all your help, Logan!
### Comment by Logan on 2017-05-01 15:26:03 -0400
Glad to help!
### Comment by Colton K on 2017-05-06 19:37:23 -0400
I just recently had my FiOS installed, and it was installed as Ethernet connection (internet only). All that I had to do was go in the FiOS router and release the DHCP, and my new router was able to work!
### Comment by Logan on 2017-05-08 09:56:27 -0400
Great to hear, thanks!
### Comment by Donna on 2017-05-30 08:51:36 -0400
Im what one would call technically challenged. Im in the process of cutting the cord from cable and am looking into internet only. What would you recommend for a router that would be an easy swap for my fios router. I had read one of the comments they had used a nighthawk and just installed. I have also read about copying the MAC address. Is it possible to just swap out one router with another and send back the VZN router? We have the router in one room on one level ranch house. Any suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-05-30 08:57:40 -0400
I would recommend any of the routers listed here. Generally, Asus, TP-Link, and Netgear make decent routers.
You may or may not need to copy the MAC, it just depends on your setup. The biggest thing is, do you have coax or ethernet running from your ONT to your current VZN router? If you have a coax line, you need to run ethernet first (since the new routers only support ethernet).
### Comment by Marc Fredette on 2017-05-30 10:14:33 -0400
Thank you Logan, and everyone else for sharing all this information. I’m preparing to switch over from Comcast to Verizon. My contract with Verizon will be internet-only. The ONT is already installed (from a few years ago) and configured for coaxial. My question is this: Given that my existing router, an Arris (Motorola) SBG6782-AC — combined cable-modem and wi-fi router, has a coax input, can’t I just connect the coax from the ONT into my existing router instead of having a Verizon technician reconfigure for ethernet? My existing router is MoCA 1.1 compliant. Thanks much, Marc
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-05-30 10:58:44 -0400
I bet you’re happy to switch haha
FiOS doesn’t use a “modem” like Comcast does. So even though you have a coax input on that device, it doesn’t perform the function that you need. I think you’ll need to call Verizon to verify, but I don’t believe you can use that with their service (since it’s a modem). I think you either need to use their router (which is only $150 and you won’t have to run any new wires), or run ethernet and use your own router.
### Comment by Marc Fredette on 2017-05-30 12:18:01 -0400
Thanks very much for the explanation — makes sense. And yeah, switching over to Comcast was not my brightest idea. ~ Marc
### Comment by Rudy on 2017-06-13 11:12:48 -0400
I have fios tv and internet with an actiontec router. I would like to connect my ASUS AC87 behind the Actiontec but need some detailed help on how to connect it. Help please!
### Comment by Warren on 2017-06-18 11:19:58 -0400
First my question: Do I actually need to install the WRT firmware to use my router with Fios ONT / ethernet connection? From what I am seeing here and on other postings, it appears that Fios should be able to do the install using my cable. Do I need to do anything else?
I have a TPLink TL-WDR3600 router (which https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start?dataflt%5BModel*~%5D=TL-WDR3600) lists as WRT capable. But I would prefer not to do that step if it is not needed.
I was a Fios customer until two years ago so I have the ONT already. I am about to switch to Internet only, and will return to Fios. I ran a 5e ethernet cable from the location of the ONT to the location of my router.
I am moderately functional in maintaining my routers and home network, but I am not a networking guru. For example, currently I use my router for my network, and plug it into the cable Xfintity modem (and it was very easy to go from Xfinity to Fios and back to Xfinity that way). I set up an old Dlink router as an access point, and cabled it TPLink router, so I have a strong wifi connection in my family room. That’s about as handy or inciteful as I get with home networking.
That said, thank you for maintaining this site and follow-up with it. It is a wealth of information for amateurs like me, providing the courage to explore.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-06-18 18:45:19 -0400
You should check out options 1-3 on this page.
With option 1, you’ll connect a LAN port of your Actiontec to the WAN port of your AC87. However, this will create a separate network on the Actiontec vs the AC87, so you’ll be double NATed.
With option 3, you’ll connect a LAN port of your Actiontec to a LAN port of your AC87. This will put both routers on the same network, and will turn your router into basically a switch/WiFi hotspot.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-06-18 18:53:45 -0400
No, you don’t need to use the OpenWRT or DDWRT firmware on your router (I just personally like it).
I think you’ll have more than enough knowledge to do this. You just need to tell the technician (on the phone or in person) that you have CAT5 run from the ONT to your router and that you want to:
1) Provision the ONT with ethernet instead of coax
2) Use your own router for the install instead of the Actiontec or Quantum router
From the comments people have left here, most had no issue getting the technician to help them setup their own router from day 1. You shouldn’t need to use their router for any period of time.
Good luck, let me know how it goes!
### Comment by Warren on 2017-06-19 12:29:23 -0400
Thank you.
### Comment by Frank on 2017-06-28 11:42:41 -0400
Really appreciate this post! read through all the comments. I just signed up for FIOS internet and they automatically put me with a self-installation. I didn’t order/rent the fios quantum gateway router based on the last couple of comments. Will I be able to get it setup even without a technician on site with my own router (and without the quantum?)? Will I be able to do it over the phone?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-06-28 11:47:07 -0400
Yep, should be no problem over the phone. Tell them you want to:
1) Provision your ONT for Ethernet instead of coax
2) Use your own router
They might have to release the DCHP lease on your ONT, but shouldn’t have any issues.
### Comment by Steve on 2017-07-17 21:49:01 -0400
Quick question from a newbie: I just purchased a Linksys Max-Stream Router and plugged it into my FiOS Quantum Gateway — it’s set up and working well. Is there any speed-related benefit (or other benefit) to physically turning OFF the Quantum Gateway WiFi so it’s strictly being used as a modem?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-07-18 09:58:15 -0400
Hi Steve,
There is probably no benefit from a technical perspective. However, remember that if you go Quantum –> Linksys –> Your devices, that you’ll be double NATed. If you do any port forwarding (firewalls, etc..) you’ll need to forward the port through both routers.
That aside, I would recommend shutting off the wifi on your FiOS router. Verizon stores the username/password on their website/TV, in case you forget your password. To me, it seems like a security hole, so I disabled it when I used their router.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/17eb0z/verizon_fios_shows_your_wireless_ssid_and/
https://forums.verizon.com/t5/Fios-Internet/My-Wi-Fi-password-should-be-private/td-p/694364
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1222193
### Comment by Steve on 2017-07-18 21:40:41 -0400
Hi Logan,
Thanks for the great advice, I really appreciate it! I’m not very tech-savvy, but I have a total of 24 devices in my house (Smart TVs, Apple TVs, FireTVs, phones, tablets, laptops) between my whole family. I use Playstation Vue along with Netflix/Hulu so I rely solely on internet for entertainment (No FiOS TV, etc.). It seems like my 100/100 FiOS Internet is a lot less reliable than my previous Comcast internet and I’m hoping that the Linksys will help manage the load. I may need to switch to Comcast’s 200/200 if I continue to have problems.
– Steve
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-07-19 10:43:38 -0400
Question for you. If you don’t have FiOS TV or phone, why don’t you replace the FiOS router with your own? It just seems easier to have one router instead of two.
By less reliable, do you mean you have outages, or there isn’t enough bandwidth for all your devices? I would highly recommend a FiOS plan with more bandwidth than switching back to Comcast. Comcast has been known to implement data caps, whereas FiOS does not.
### Comment by Steve on 2017-07-19 20:06:42 -0400
Hi Logan,
Great points:
1) Yes, I just “replaced” my FiOS Router with a Linksys Max-Stream AC2200 and disabled the WiFi on my FiOS Quantum Gateway. I would love to completely take the Q.G. out of the equation, but I still need to use it as a router. You have done a great job on this site of laying out how to physically take the modem out of the signal chain, but I’m not super tech-savvy and am working up to something like that. For now, I need the Quantum Gateway, but maybe after I muster up the guts to follow your directions, I’ll actually remove it and save myself $10/month.
2) By less reliable, I mean the following: a) my 2.4g signal constants craps out on the Q.G. and I have to unplug-and-replug my Q.G. to get it back up and, of course, it craps out again in a few hours. Therefore, I have to run everything in my house off the 5g, which slows everything down. b) I have my Q.G. on the 2nd floor of a 3-story townhouse and my signal on both the upstairs and downstairs floors is not great. I put Range Extenders on both of those floors, but they seem to be somewhat unreliable, too. I chose to get a 3rd Party Router to achieve a better signal range and a more consistent signal stream. Plus, the Linksys has the added benefit of allowing me to prioritize the signal so that my bedroom 4K TV gets more bandwidth than, say, the AppleTV in my basement, etc. I just installed the Linksys 2 nights ago and I already have a significantly better WiFi signal when I’m upstairs, which is what I wanted.
I’m debating on switching from 100/100 from FiOS to 150/150 for an extra $10/month. There are 5 adults in my house with multiple devices so I could use all the bandwidth I can (reasonably) afford. If I can ultimately remove the Q.G. (as you lay out on this site) then I make up that $10 right there. I’m also in Month 8 of a 24-Month deal with Verizon so I don’t intend on switching back to Comcast right now.
Thanks for all your help!
– Steve
### Comment by Steve on 2017-07-19 20:07:42 -0400
*correction: I still need to use the Q.G. as “modem” — not a “router”
### Comment by Steve on 2017-07-19 20:17:30 -0400
One more question: My Q.G. is not plugged into the wall via Coax. It’s plugged into via CAT line. How may that affect the process of removing the Quantum Gateway from the equation?
Thanks!
Steve
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-07-19 22:48:43 -0400
First, let’s make sure we’re on the same page here.
FiOS does not need a modem, like Comcast does. FiOS delivers TV+phone+internet on one fiber line to your house, and uses a box called an Optical Network Terminal (ONT) to turn the fiber signal into TV+phone+internet signals. For the sake of this, we’re only going to talk about internet.
Typically, the ONT turns the fiber internet signal into a signal that runs on a coax line into the FiOS router, the Quantum Gateway (QG). The QG is your main router.
--| |--
--| |--\
| | \
| | F
| | i
| | b
| | e
| | r
| | \
| | \ |-----| ------------------- |----|
| | ----| ONT |--Coax--| Quantum Gateway |---| PC |
| | |-----| ------------------- |----|
| |
| |
However, you can also have ethernet between the ONT and QG. Typically, ethernet is used if you have speeds faster than 100/100, as coax really can’t keep up.
If you have FiOS TV/phone, you typically need to keep the QG. But if you’re internet only, you can ditch the QG and use your own router, as long as you have ethernet instead of coax.
So onto your questions…
1) So you simply turned off the wifi on the QG and are using the Linksys for wifi, but the QG is still doing routing? Nothing wrong with this setup, but like you mentioned, you’re paying $10 for a router when you already have a better one at home.
2a) Yes, the 2.4GHz range is pretty congested. Unforunately, there’s not much you can do about that. Try to switch to a different 2.4GHz channel, but typically 5GHz is much less congested. However, 5GHz doesn’t go as far or through as many walls at 2.4GHz. If possibe, I always recommend to hard-wire (with ethernet) as many devices as you can (especially ones that use a lot of bandwidth like streaming media devices).
2b) Range extenders typically “cut” the bandwidth in half, since they use half their power to pickup the main signal, and half their power to repeat it. Again, if possible, stay away from range extenders. Sounds like the Linksys is working better already, which is expected (it’s a nice router).
I’m not sure how upping your bandwidth would affect your contract. Would you start your 24 months over, or use 150/150 for the remaining 16 months?
In conclusion:
If your QG is doing the routing and the Linksys is doing wifi and they’re connected together by ethernet, there won’t be any speed benefit from removing the QG from the equation (minus saving $10/month).
It sounds like the problem most people have: too many devices using too much bandwidth for one router to handle. In that case, the only long-term solution is remove some devices, or get more routers. If possible, I would recommend running an ethernet cable to each floor from the main router, and plugging in some cheaper routers as extenders to extend your wifi signal. Again, it’s not always possible to run cables through the walls, but it would provide the best solution. Also, try to hard-wire as many devices as possible (desktop PCs, Apple TV, etc…).
### Comment by Steve on 2017-07-21 09:20:19 -0400
Wow, you’re awesome! One final question: since I am only using FiOS Internet and my FiOS Internet is already entering The QG via Ethernet, could I simply take the ethernet cable that’s plugged into the back my QG, unplug it, and plug it into my Linksys Router?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-07-21 10:40:43 -0400
Basically. Read [the post][1] to look at the steps.
[1]: https://loganmarchione.com/2015/07/use-your-own-router-with-verizon-fios/#How-to
### Comment by lrossi on 2017-07-31 10:59:50 -0400
Thank you very much for posting this info. I ran a cat6 from my ONT to my TP-link Archer C9 router and the Fios tech was able to get it online without issue. Or so I thought, after he left I did a speed test and I was getting the full download speeds but less than 1 mbps upload speeds (on a wired connection).
To troubleshoot I connected the PC directly to the ONT and I was able to get the full down/up speeds so that indicated a problem in the router settings. I did a factory reset and erased the google DNS server information that I had before so the router would use the ONT as DNS server. That fixed the problem but it reappeared again about a week ago.
Is there any router setting I should pay attention to? Would installing something like DD-wrt fix this problem? I would rather keep my router stock if possible as a 3ed party firmware would void my warranty.
Thanks for the help.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-07-31 14:02:31 -0400
The DNS server shouldn’t have any effect on the upload speed.
Have you tried requesting a new DHCP lease from Verizon? Also, are you measuring the speeds via ethernet or wifi?
I honestly don’t think it’s your router (as many people have used their own router and not had any issues). I would call Verizon and ask them to renew your DHCP lease and look for any issues. It sounds to me like something isn’t correct on their side (especially since you returned to stock settings).
### Comment by lrossi on 2017-08-01 07:36:45 -0400
I will try to convince Verizon renew my DHCP lease but I have the feeling they will give me a hard time considering that the first thing they ask me is to plug my computer directly to the ONT and when I do everything seems to be fine. .
The router does have a button to “release” the IP address and another for “Renew”, both of which are under the WAN section. Should I try those first?
Would cloning the mac address of my PC on the router do any good considering that my PC has no problems achieving the full speeds?
Again, thank for your help.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-01 12:24:00 -0400
Yes, try release/renew and see. Also, reboot your router to be sure it takes.
You could try cloning the MAC, but I don’t know if you can have the same MAC on the network twice…
### Comment by lrossi on 2017-08-02 07:38:45 -0400
Well, I cloned the PC’s MAC address, deleted the DNS information under the DHCP section and then rebooted the router.
I don’t understand why but for some reason it worked. I know these settings shouldn’t have any effect on the internet speed but I’ll try to figure it out later. Right now I’m just happy i can work remotely from home again.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-02 08:38:20 -0400
Weird that it worked, but glad it’s working!
Maybe try to switch back to the original MAC in a few weeks and see if it breaks again?
### Comment by Manuel Ayala on 2017-08-07 16:29:11 -0400
Hi Logan,
Thanks for all very interesting points discussed in this blog. I am scheduled to install a new FIOS Internet Only service in my house (50/50). The house is cable ready however splicing has not been done. I am planning to buy my own Router that is not necessarily VERIZON models ( Actiontec or G1100). The order that I put includes that they bring the G1100 and install my router, if it does not work, then they will use the G1100. Do you think I should run a CAT6 from the entry point to the house to the place I want to have the ONT and my router ? Do you know if the technician will need to configure my network using the MAC of the router they are bringing or they can change the default of the ONT output and make it Ethernet, then register my Router ? Ihave scheduled my installation for Aug 21. Thanks for your advice. Manuel
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-08 08:47:35 -0400
The technician will run fiber from the pole to the ONT. You will need to run ethernet from the ONT to your router. If you only have coax, you’ll **have to** use the G1100.
The technician should be able to use your router (assuming you ran CAT6) and its true MAC. If that doesn’t work, have him install the G1100 and then you can try to switch out your router after a week or so.
### Comment by Manuel Ayala on 2017-08-08 16:20:03 -0400
I have been suggested to get the TP-Link Archer C9 AC1900 or the NETGEAR AC1750. What do you think ? Should both work with FIOS ONT Ethernet port ? Thanks Logan
### Comment by Beth on 2017-08-09 12:33:28 -0400
I just had Verizon tech come out today. I was switching from Comcast and knew my modem/router I had used with them would not work for Fios. I got a really nice Netgear WNDR3700 router off ebay for $25 to use with the new Fios service. I ran a flat Cat6 cable from the outside ONT through a window to this router before the technician came out. To be honest, I don’t know why he had to come out at all but it was no charge so that was good. He looked at my ONT and saw that I had already run the Cat6 cable so he went out to his truck and activated the ethernet service. It took about 5 minutes. Then I hooked up my router and was all set. I didn’t even need to use the Verizon Gateway that they sent me in the mail. The tech told me to return it and I would be free of the $10 month rental charge. He also told me that if there ever was an issue that Verizon wouldn’t support my router since it wasn’t theirs but I already knew that.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-09 20:16:04 -0400
Sounds like it worked out for you!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-09 20:16:59 -0400
Yes, those are both great routers and will work with the ONT ethernet port.
### Comment by Manuel Ayala on 2017-08-10 16:54:45 -0400
Since my house is wired with COAX to several rooms and I have an old ACTIONTEC Fios Router (revision D), Can I use the newer TP-LINK or Netgear as an AP ? I would connect it to the FIOS old router via ethernet cable. Would the advantages of the new router would be used or they would be downgraded by the slower performance of the old router (Don’t plan to connect via WiFi to old router, instead I would be using 802.11.n or ac) ? Thanks
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-12 12:18:41 -0400
Yes, you can use the newer router as a wireless access point (just be sure to disable the wifi on the Actiontec).
Your network is only as fast as your slowest device. However, since you only have 50/50 internet, it’s not a big deal. If you upgrade to 100/100 or higher, the Actiontec probably will become the weakest link.
### Comment by Manuel Ayala on 2017-08-12 17:25:41 -0400
Thanks Logan, I will keep you posted after the installation. Best,
Manuel
### Comment by Kasun on 2017-08-14 15:11:37 -0400
Thanks for the hard-work on your end. Now on to my experience. After ordering Gigabit I bought the Archer c7 and the Google Wifi to test out wifi performance in my less than 500sqft. Installation went without a hitch, after the tech visit, I ran multiple speed-tests directly from the ONT (wired cat 6) and got speeds which capped out at 750/800. I then hooked up the c7 and it gave me under 50mbps (2.4) and 150mbps (5g). Google wifi gives me 40mbps (2.4) and 250mbps (5g). I tested all these steps away from the router and made sure only 1 device was connected.
I’m not that happy with the outcome. Did I do anything wrong with the routers I got, should I just rent/get a G1100?
I did not have to copy the mac adress or release the DCPH for any of the routers, was that needed at all?
Also is it odd that I only get ~750 down when connected straight from the ONT?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-14 16:29:44 -0400
Directly wired to the ONT seems like normal results. I don’t think FiOS Gigabit gives you true 1000Mbps, it’s closer to the 900Mbps range.
When using the wifi, were you using 802.11n or 802.11ac? To be honest, the speeds that routers advertise for wifi are usually aggregated speeds and will be nowhere near what to expect in real life. It also depends on what device you are using (maybe it’s limited to 802.11g?).
There’s also the possibility that the hardware on the C7 can’t keep up with gigabit speeds. I can’t speak to the Google Wifi hardware though…
### Comment by Danielle on 2017-08-20 09:38:35 -0400
Can I use the verizon router and my router too?
I\`ve had problems with signal in my bedrom and I dont know If I should put another router or a extender.
Can you guys help me?
Im trying learning everything by my self and not is so easy for a woman.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-08-20 10:13:54 -0400
Yes, you can use either your router or the Verizon router as a bridge or repeater.
### Comment by Panos on 2017-09-09 21:42:33 -0400
Hello, I bought a used Actiontec MI424WR Rev. I to use for my new 50/50 Fios. However wifi connection is slow as it only has 2.4Ghz, most likely from interference from other wireless networks in nearby apartments. Wired connection works fine.
So I’m looking to buy a new modem/router that has 5.4Ghz, Verizon supports quantum gateway g1100 but it’s a bit expensive.
I’ve read through your guide but I don’t have the time to switch over to ethernet conncetion, I’d prefer staying on my coax.
What modem type would you suggest?
### Comment by Panos on 2017-09-09 21:44:34 -0400
Also I don’t have TV or phone, just internet.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-09-09 22:06:03 -0400
If you’re going to use coax from the ONT, you **need** to either use the Actiontec or the Quantum Gateway. FiOS doesn’t have a “modem” you can replace (like with Comcast). I believe you can purchase the Quantum Gateway refurbished, which should save you some money.
### Comment by Panos on 2017-09-11 10:26:50 -0400
Thank you very much for your reply!
Ok so I went through an online chat with Verizon asking them to change the ONT to ethernet. They did it in about 15 minutes. I plugged my Actiontec to the ONT’s ethernet and it worked just fine.
Now I ordered a new Archer c7, will get back to you with the results!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-09-11 19:20:49 -0400
Glad it worked out! Good luck!
### Comment by Jonathan on 2017-10-29 16:06:07 -0400
Hey there, thanks for this great write up. Your instructions here are for what to do if FIOS has already been setup. In my case it hasnt been setup yet. I can run an ethernet cable outside from my router, so the installer can do the setup at the ONT using ethernet, but I doubt they will be ok with ‘setting up’ my router. Once they enable the Ethernet port on the ONT, is it simply a matter of me plugging the other end into my router? Or does the technician need to ask the verizon techs to setup a DHCP lease, or otherwise ‘do something’ so that my router gets an IP? If I can skip the step of using a verizon router to begin with (rather then having them setup a verizon router which i later have to return once i switch to my router), I think that would be ideal, but ive read they wont do the setup without verifying connectivity with a verizon router, and im afraid if they do that, then ill have to do mac address cloning, etc. However, I’m not so sure they will be willing to do the setup with my router.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-10-30 08:18:26 -0400
Jon,
Read through the comments here. Some people have had no issues getting a technician to use their own router from the beginning. The tech obviously won’t be able to login to your router and setup DHCP/WiFi/etc… but you can do all that beforehand. If you have an appointment for an install already, call Verizon and ask them to verify.
### Comment by Jonathan on 2017-10-30 21:51:58 -0400
Hi Logan, thanks for the reply. I already have the router setup and im using it day to day. I guess my question was if I havent had FIOS before, do I need to do anything on the router to set it up/get it ready, either before the technician comes or while he is there, or in most cases will the technician do everthing thats required on the ONT and all thats required after that is for me to plug in the ethernet cable to the router itself (and then my router should pick up an IP)?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-10-30 21:56:35 -0400
You won’t have to do anything special to it (as long as it’s set to pull an IP from the WAN DHCP server, which is typically the default setting). The tech should be able to install your FiOS with your router and verify it gets an IP, all before he leaves.
### Comment by Vj on 2017-11-27 14:49:30 -0500
Hi Logan – First of all, thanks for such an informative forum. I have never seen a technical forum which is so easy to follow and understand as yours.
I am paying $10 router rental for last 2.5 years now and want to stop it. I have Fios G1100 router. Current speed is 50/50. I have 2 BR apartment. I have 6 devices on internet (2 phones- 24 hrs, 2 laptops – 12 hrs day time, 1 ipad and 1 tv occasionally during day time). Please recommend routers that are easy to use and operate.
Regards
VJ
### Comment by Vj on 2017-11-27 14:58:01 -0500
Also, missed mentioning. I was not able to figure out the connection for Ethernet cable in ONT. Please guide.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-11-27 20:09:21 -0500
Do you have FiOS TV, or do you use internet-streaming services (Hulu, Netflix, etc…)? Asking because FiOS set-top boxes require you to have Verizon’s router on your network. Just a heads up, this guide does not cover what to do with that portion of the setup.
I would recommend any of the routers listed here. Generally, Asus makes decent routers for the price. You probably want to plan to spend about $100 at the minimum.
What kind of cable do you have running from your ONT to the G1100? Is it coax or ethernet? If it’s coax and you want to use your own router, you’ll need to run an ethernet cable (since most consumer routers don’t have a coax port).
### Comment by Vj on 2017-11-28 18:52:27 -0500
Thanks Logan.
I have FioS tv. But I will discontinue it this week. I have Amazon prime video service also. After disconnecting fios tv, I am planning to buy tv antenna for free channels and subscribe to Sling or Direct tv.
Cable: From Ont to G1100, its coax cable. I will run the Ethernet cable for the new router. I spent some time figuring out the Ethernet port on ont box. But couldn’t find it. I will post a picture of the box and request your guidance.
### Comment by Jeremy on 2017-12-11 12:28:14 -0500
Thanks for this article — it’s exactly what I was looking for. I cloned the MAC of my rented Quantum G1100 gateway and am now using a Netgear router. It was a quick, hassle-free call to Verizon to have them switch the ONT from coax to Ethernet.
However… when I returned the G1100 to a Verizon store, the rep asked — twice — whether I’d activated my new router. I said I had. Once I got back to the office I saw a cancellation e-mail from Verizon. My wife reports that service is still up, though this could turn into a headache if it’s cancelled.
So, cloning the MAC from a rented device (at least a current-gen device) may be problematic because Verizon is apparently tracking the rented gateways with regard to their presence on the network. And there presumably would be a conflict if the Quantum GW gets re-used. I looked into buying a cheap Actiontec on Craigslist, though I’ve since read that Verizon is charging a fee for using the older-gen Actiontec.
PS: I’m in the DC metro area. Not sure if there’s any regional variation with this.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-12-11 13:06:04 -0500
Interesting. To play it safe (so they don’t shut off your service), you should try using your router’s real MAC. This would require you to call Verizon and ask them to release your DHCP lease, then at the same time, switch back to your real MAC (screenshot the cloned one just in case) and reboot your router.
### Comment by Jeremy on 2017-12-12 13:31:05 -0500
My service was disconnected last evening. I spent a couple hours on the phone (3 different calls) and ultimately had to create a new account. I’m now back up and running and was able to use my Netgear router (“real” MAC). It appears as though Verizon is sending me equipment at no charge?!?!
All of the people I spoke with were apologetic and reasonably helpful, so I didn’t feel despair about getting the problem corrected. (As opposed to dealing with Comcast in the past for just about anything.) But it’s clear that Verizon’s systems are not designed to handle edge cases. I had to get tech support to update my ONT, which they did within the promised 45-min timeframe.
The silver lining is that I’m getting 100/100 Mbps service for the same price that we were paying for 50. (Of course I still have to call them back in a year because it expires.)
My advice: Don’t clone the MAC of a rented gateway and then return it.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-12-12 20:01:22 -0500
Sorry this happened to you, but I’m glad you were able to get it corrected quickly. I’ve updated my guide to not recommend cloning the MAC anymore.
### Comment by Jeremy on 2017-12-14 11:25:03 -0500
Thanks. Wondering if these statements are (generally) true?
1. Verizon will switch from coax to Ethernet if you call and ask nicely. They didn’t balk at all when I said I wanted to abandon my coax and had Ethernet wiring to a new, better router location. (I’m an Internet-only customer.)
2. The main reason to rent the FiOS gateway (router) from Verizon from one month when setting up new service is the speed and convenience of getting one’s service up and running. Going outside of Verizon’s predefined scenarios increases the risk of problems and lengthy solutions.
3. Cloning the MAC of an active device gets you up and running immediately with a new device, but isn’t necessary. Verizon doesn’t seem to be validating that MAC addresses “belong” to the pool of Actiontec or Quantum gateways. The safer method is to release the DHCP lease and call to switch devices, as the guide now reflects. However, cloning is a fine approach if you own (and intend to keep) your Actiontec/Quantum gateway, because it allows you to use it as a spare without a call to tech support.
PS: Verizon didn’t send me any equipment… just a welcome packet. Oddly, two CSRs thought that it was equipment, and were concerned that their shipment was potentially delaying activation. It wasn’t, but another instance where straying outside Verizon’s intended scenarios adds complexity.
PPS: It appeared that I needed to go to verizon.net when activating my “new” service with my Netgear router. I had confirmed that the router had an IP address (and gateway, DNS), but it wouldn’t redirect from verizon.com or google.com. (This wasn’t a repeatable test, just passing it along FWIW.) I don’t remember having to do that when I set up the Quantum gateway 6 months ago. Anyway, I logged on with my Verizon credentials and all was well.
### Comment by Jeremy on 2017-12-14 11:37:06 -0500
Following up on the PPS: I have a theory that you could order new Internet-only service to a location that has a working ONT and activate it without needing a Verizon gateway. (Based on my experience doing this, albeit with the history of them having cancelled my service the day before.) It would be more involved if you had to switch the ONT to Ethernet. If someone wants to try it, I would recommend ordering service on the website, then saving the cart and calling Verizon and giving them the order number. They’ll likely ask you a couple times if you already have a gateway, and they’ll try to upsell you to more expensive service.
I’d then tell them that you want to activate the service ASAP because you already have a working ONT and your own gateway (which they will probably assume is Verizon equipment). They should tell you to call the activation line (855-372-2181). If the activation folks are cooperative, your service should be active in 45 min, or the timeframe they provide. As mentioned in the adjacent comment, I had to go to http://verizon.net to get the activation page after confirming that my router had gotten its configuration via DHCP.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-12-14 11:52:57 -0500
1) Yes, I did this with no issue. I think all installs with the Quantum gateway require ethernet, so the technicians are probably used to switching from coax to ethernet.
2) I agree. I think 95% of people just want working internet and aren’t nerdy enough to care about which router they use.
3) I agree. I don’t think they have a pool of valid MACs. However, I’ve seen the DHCP release/renew process take a long time and sometimes require a call to Verizon (although, some people report the “Release” button in the FiOS router GUI works just fine).
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-12-14 11:53:49 -0500
I’d also be interested if anyone gets this working!
### Comment by Jeremy on 2017-12-14 12:23:13 -0500
The Quantum gateways work just fine on coax. That’s the way I set up my service initially about 6 months ago. Requiring Ethernet would be a non-starter for many older houses that only have coax wiring. Like mine did, until a couple days ago!
### Comment by Lanre on 2017-12-15 10:58:22 -0500
Hi Logan
Thanks for the information, I just sign up for the FIOS 1GB internet only network i wanted to use my own router but before i saw this post i try setting up my Netgear nighthawk x6, the wired thing is i am getting internet connection on one device but get disconnected after few min or when i connect more device to the router am not sure which trigger the lost of connection. When i connect the Verizon Quantum gateway router everything works fine. I return the nighthawk router before i saw this post am thinking of getting it back and trying the DHCP config release. Any thought on anything else i should try?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2017-12-15 14:35:30 -0500
If your Nighthawk is getting an IP from Verizon and at least one device can get online, I don’t think it’s Verizon’s fault. It sounds like you had a misconfiguration on your Nighthawk.
If you get the Nighthawk back, I’d make sure to wipe it, update the firmware, and set it up from scratch.
### Comment by Brian Rue on 2018-01-05 20:11:24 -0500
Finally did this today! Got the Archer C7 and it worked out great! Thanks for making this awesome tutorial!
-Brian
### Comment by Brian Rue on 2018-01-05 20:13:46 -0500
https://imgur.com/a/6Jbly
### Comment by Vj on 2018-01-05 21:50:11 -0500
Logan – Here’s an update on my experience. I couldn’t believe that it was so simple and straight forward. I should have done it long back and saved the $10 monthly out go. Here’s the steps:
1) Purchased Netgear AC1750 from Amazon for $95 including tax. Plugged into power supply to make sure it powers on.
2) Contacted Verizon using their online Chat support. Told them to switch from coax to Ethernet. Support said it will take 5-10 mins. After 5 mins, I was told switch is done. Requested them to be online so that I can test. Connected laptop using Ethernet cable to the Ethernet port on the ont box. It was working.
3. Connected Netgear router to Ethernet port on ont using cable. Connected my laptop to router using cable. Internet was working on the laptop.
4. Completed the router admin setup.
5. Tested wireless connection. It was working.
6. Called up Verizon and requested for stopping their router charges. They noted it and said it will be done after router is returned. They mailed a box and shipping label for return. But instead I traveled to their nearby store and returned the router. Got immediate email confirmation.
I would like to state that I did not had to copy the mac adress or release the DCPH. It was just unplug Verizon router, switch from coax to Ethernet port, and plug Netgear router.
Once again, thanks to Logan and contributors to this forum, which game me the confidence to make it happen.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-01-08 10:55:19 -0500
Glad it worked out!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-01-08 10:55:51 -0500
Do you mind if I link to this comment in the blog? I’m trying to get more pictures of ONTs.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-01-08 11:03:10 -0500
Glad it worked out and thanks for the update!
### Comment by jimmyp on 2018-02-16 17:39:14 -0500
Hi Logan – lots of great info here ! So I’m about to pull the plug on my Actiontec for an ASUS RT -AC88U. Luckily I have Ethernet already coming into the house from the ONT. I notice in your steps above, you are recommending setting up the new router before breaking the lease on the old. Since I’ve never done this before – is it possible to do all the setting up without an internet connection? Or as someone else has said above, can I turn off the Actiontec overnight, plug the ASUS in the next day when the lease is released, and do the setting up of the router at that point? Or will I run into trouble if I plug in the ASUS for the first time with internet and set up then ? Thanks in advance !
### Comment by Scott Foster on 2018-02-18 23:55:28 -0500
Thanks for this guide, I am planning on moving ahead with the switch however I am a bit confused by how my ONT seems to be set up. When logged into the router it does say my connection is ethernet/coax. When I look inside the box there is an ethernet cable plugged in that runs to the right side of the box where it is then split apart and the individual wires are sitting with some plastic contraption. Im not sure what that does or if I need to even concern myself with it, or if I can just plug my ethernet cable in its place, run into the house, and call Verizon like the last standard steps. I included 2 annotated pics of the box.
https://satori-design.d.pr/1O1iaP
https://satori-design.d.pr/TB7KyF
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-02-19 08:06:20 -0500
You can setup the ASUS without an internet connection. Just plug in the power, then plug a computer into a LAN port on the ASUS and go to the router’s config page (usually http://192.168.1.1). From there, you can setup WiFi, firewall, etc…
Nothing wrong with doing either method, but setting up the ASUS before eliminates the downtime. I can’t guarantee leaving the Actiontec unplugged overnight will be long enough to release your DHCP lease, you still might need to call Verizon to release your lease (or use the “Release Lease” button from within the Actiontec’s config page).
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-02-19 08:18:49 -0500
Scott,
Ethernet cables have eight wires, setup in four pairs of two, wired in either T568A or T568B format. However, ethernet only **needs** four of those eight wires to function. So technically, you could run two separate ethernet signals over one physical ethernet wire. In your case, it appears that’s whats happening (however, I don’t know why). You’ll probably need to dig deeper and see if those eight wires seems to be split into two groups, and where each of those groups go. I’d bet that one would go to your router, but I don’t know where the other would go, or why Verizon would set it up like that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable#Variants_and_comparisons
### Comment by jimmyp on 2018-02-20 13:24:26 -0500
Thanks Logan – set it up yesterday. Released lease from Actiontec router, unplugged everything, plugged in ASUS, turned it on, set up the wifi, plugged in the WAN cable, waited patiently – internet light was red ( and scaring me ) for about 10-15 min. Then found the IP and I was off and running at my plan of 50/50 mbps. A note for others, don’t freak out if the connection isn’t immediate. Be patient, it could take a little bit. Otherwise, the ASUS is up and running and I’m super happy to rid myself of the actiontecs crappy wifi !
Big thanks to you Logan for this guide !
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-02-21 10:03:37 -0500
Glad it worked out!
### Comment by Scott Foster on 2018-02-22 16:12:47 -0500
Thanks for the feedback. I will take a closer look at the the grouping, but I do remember my father saying that he used to have Comcast and when the Verizon guy came out to hook up everything he said he piggy backed off some of the old comcast install. Im not exactly sure which parts though. But could I test if its already live and working by just plugging a new unsplit ethernet cable into the ONT and then into the router?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-02-22 16:20:14 -0500
Yes, you could try just swapping in a new cable.
What cable goes into the back of your Verizon router right now, coax or ethernet? Whatever is plugged in is what is live.
### Comment by Scott Foster on 2018-02-26 17:31:53 -0500
Right now its coax and ethernet to the WAN port. After the external Verizon box, it comes into the house to this (https://satori-design.d.pr/eLzMfE) which goes to the router.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-02-27 15:30:51 -0500
Both coax and ethernet run from your ONT to your router? That makes no sense to me, only one of them must be working.
I’m pretty sure that box is just a battery backup. Your ethernet doesn’t run in/out of that box, does it? It should be electric-only.
### Comment by lam2988 on 2018-03-02 18:59:21 -0500
there is a new set up for fios , I just got it and they took all that big bulky stuff from my place it is now a small box to the router I think you can change it online yourself
### Comment by Brian Rue on 2018-03-04 11:46:23 -0500
Please do!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-03-04 16:06:38 -0500
Nice! Do you have a picture of the box?
### Comment by Jean on 2018-04-15 13:58:20 -0400
Hi Logan, I just made the switch yesterday from Comcast to Verizon internet. I own an Arris Surfboard SBG6782-AC and learned it’s not compatible with Verizon. There’s no input Ethernet. Would like to purchase one that is compatible, doesn’t pay to rent them. Can you recommend a good one? Not sure how much the technology has changed over the years and don’t want to get something with older tech. I definitely want to be sure the Wi-Fi signal is strong throughout the house and would like to invest in one that would also work well with their cable and phone, if I should choose to add those features to my Verizon account down the road. Just have internet only now. Thanks in advance!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-04-15 20:12:17 -0400
Correct, there is no WAN port on that modem (with Verizon, the ONT is technically the “modem”). I would recommend anything by Asus, but specifically the RT-AC66 or RT-AC68. Asus makes great hardware, and they provide updates about once a month, so your router is always secure from the latest bugs.
Keep in mind, if you add FiOS TV, you **need** to use their router in order for certain functions to work (e.g., guide, video-on-demand, etc…).
### Comment by Jean on 2018-04-16 07:08:25 -0400
Thank You!!
### Comment by Chris Nye on 2018-05-03 10:01:12 -0400
Your instructions were spot on! Took about 45 mins to call Verizon, cancel the old router and then have tech support assist in activating the new router. Beers in your favor will be mightily consumed, bro!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-05-03 11:10:04 -0400
Glad it worked!
### Comment by Daniel on 2018-05-08 09:08:59 -0400
Just a note in case you want to run alternative firmware on the ASUS routers – the RT-AC66 is no longer supported by Merlin. However, you can get an RT-AC68 cheap by looking for folks offloading T-Mobile branded ones, they can be flashed back to stock ASUS easily and then to the latest Merlin release.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-05-09 13:24:59 -0400
Didn’t know Merlin dropped support for the AC66, that sucks.
### Comment by Coop on 2018-05-12 11:44:03 -0400
I just got my FiOS 100Mbps connection yesterday. The Tech ran a Cat6 cable to the fios router and connected both the coax port and RJ45 to WAN. I asked him if I replace this with my own router do I need to call tech support, he said no, just replace it with your router and send this back.
Has anyone tried that before? That is not calling Verizon to swap it out! I am afraid if I call them they may just say not it won’t work.
Also I am looking to get Netgear X6S AC3000 router, is anyone else using it? It has relatively good reviews on Costco and is on sale.
Thanks for putting together this valuable information!!!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-05-14 09:09:23 -0400
You can try it without calling tech support, but don’t be surprised if it doesn’t work without a call to them.
### Comment by Coop on 2018-05-24 12:31:02 -0400
I just switched to my own router today. All I did before switching the router was that I released the WAN IP from FiOS quantum router and immediately turned if off by removing power cable. I then moved the Ethernet cable connected to the WAN port of FiOS Quantum Gateway router to my Netgear Nighthawk R7000P router and powered it on. That’s it!
No phones calls or MAC address change or registration required. Hopefully I am not celebrating victory too soon, it has been up for about 3 hours now. If it continues to work after a week to tens days, I would say all is good.
Thanks for your blog it helped me a lot!
### Comment by Coop on 2018-05-24 12:44:01 -0400
Correction: not that it matters, but the my router model is R7900P.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-05-24 15:20:24 -0400
Glad it worked out! Let me know if things change.
### Comment by Chris on 2018-05-30 13:35:11 -0400
Hi Logan (and everyone else watching this thread),
Here at my work, we have ~90 branches throughout the U.S., all having various business broadband connections. At these locations, we require a static IP address from the ISP that we assign to our router (not the ISP’s.) This allows us to manage/monitor all of our equipment over VPN connections that connect back to our corp. HQ. My boss and colleagues have always steered us away from using Verizon Fios at a branch because we would need to put their router into bridge mode, which we’ve been told by Verizon sales reps that they will not support their equipment in bridge mode. They’ve even gone as far as telling us that Verizon support may actually take the router out of bridge mode to do any type of troubleshooting. Once they do this, we’re unable to manage any of the equipment at the branch and would need to walk an end user through putting the router back in bridge mode. This just wouldn’t work for us and would be a royal pain in the rear.
So, fast forward to today and I’ve found one of my locations having issues with their current ISP, which has caused me to look for another ISP in their area and the only option is Verizon Fios. I thought to myself, there’s got to be other companies that have found a way to utilize Verizon Fios without the need for bridge mode. So I start using my Google-Fu and find Logan’s site with all of this wonderful info. Ordering Fios at one of our branches and having the field tech install it with a direction ethernet connection from the ONT to our own router with no Verizon router sounds like it would satisfy our needs and eliminate the whole bridge mode fiasco.
My question to those of you that have contacted Verizon support with this setup….Did Verizon support give you any hassle over not using their Verizon route? Or using the ethernet port on the ONT? I’ve seen a ton of information on the web that the overall experience with Verizon Fios level 1 support is brutal. Typically my IT dept. is pretty self sufficient in troubleshooting connectivity issues with our branches. But in those rare occasions that we find out that the issue is on the ISP’s end, we’ll need to contact Verizon support and the last thing I need is some pimple faced college kid telling me he can’t help me because we’re not using a Verizon router.
Any input would be appreciated…
Chris
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-05-30 14:03:40 -0400
Chris, because this is a business, I would definitely call their business support and ask them, as opposed to calling their level 1 tech support. However, I received no hassle for using the ethernet port or my own router.
### Comment by Chris Phillips on 2018-06-01 19:26:39 -0400
Hi Logan…thanks for the reply!
Yeah, I figured that interaction “might” be a little better then residential support, and it’s typical for us to only work with the ISP’s business support division. Without reading through every single comment on this page, do you recall anyone using a static IP address from Verizon and if so, was it a public IP that they were able to assign to their router? I’ve heard grumblings that Verizon can assign a static IP, but it will get assigned to a Verizon device, then NAT to a private IP that you put on your router. My guess is that “Verizon device” is the Verizon router we’re pulling out of the mix, the same one that’s typically put in bridge mode. But until we talk to a Verizon engineer or support tech (which we’ll be doing next week), we won’t know. So I’m just trying to jump the gun and get as much info as I can. This page has been a great source of info, so I appreciate it!!
Thanks again…
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-06-06 09:55:44 -0400
No, I don’t believe anyone in the comments was using a static IP address.
### Comment by Coop on 2018-06-06 22:40:12 -0400
Hi there, just wanted to let you know, all is good even after 10+ days. I am going to call Verizon tomorrow to return quantum router and save $10/mo 🙂 thanks for your guidance.
Regards,
Coop
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-06-10 14:12:05 -0400
Glad it worked out! Thanks for following up!
### Comment by JR on 2018-06-18 21:03:31 -0400
Hi,
I’m about to do this as well with a Netgear Nighthawk R700 router. Hopefully i will have Coop’s easy experience (thigh i can see that he had a slightly different model in the end).
Logan, I’m confused as to why you made your own Ethernet cable. Do I need to do that or can I just use a standard one?
Thanks,
JR
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-06-19 09:53:16 -0400
It should be super easy!
I only made my own cable because I wanted a custom length. You don’t need to make your own cable.
### Comment by Mike Benton on 2018-08-07 20:08:03 -0400
Just did the switch to my ASUS router. Routed the cable from the ONT and to the Verizon router. Called service, who then forward me to a higher tier. Only 10 minute hold, then guy then switched to Ethernet and made sure the Verizon router came up. Then reset the DHCP, and hit apply. Pulled the plug (so to speak) and hooked the Ethernet cable into my ASUS, powered up and connected. Now just gotta return the Verizon router.
Thanks for the guide!
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-08-08 20:54:51 -0400
Glad it worked out!
### Comment by Christian on 2018-08-17 17:58:26 -0400
I have been running 75/75 Fios service over my Netgate pfSense appliance for many years. My contract just expired once again, and Verizon’s upgrade offer to 150/150 for not much more money was too tempting. The tech came and upgraded my ONT to one with a Gigabit Ethernet port. I had asked him to not use the Quantum router but continue with my old firewall. It did not work, and because I was away on a business trip and the family needed internet, I grudgingly agreed to have him set up the Quantum router.
Fast-forward to a few days later. I am home again and have been trying to get pfSense acquire an IP address from the WAN DHCP without success. I cloned the MAC address, even the host name, and followed the good tips in this thread for releasing the DHCP lease and powering down the Quantum router. It just will not work.
The Netgate m1n1wall only has a 100kBit WAN port, and my only hope is that the ONT requires a Gigabit connection. A new Netgate SG-3100 is already ordered. If it does not work, either, I have no fallback solution.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-08-20 09:50:57 -0400
Let me know how this turns out. The speed of the port should have nothing to do with it.
I have a feeling you’ll need to call Verizon customer service and get them to release/renew your device’s MAC on their end.
### Comment by Christian on 2018-08-21 21:48:18 -0400
Success. I plugged in the new firewall (Netgate SG-3100), changed the LAN IP to my network, entered the Fios WAN MAC address in the “spoof” field, released the Quantum DHCP lease and powered it down, and immediately got a DHCP lease on the Netgate. I would say not having a GB Lan connection did make a difference. If the LAN port on the ONT is pinned to GB speed, it will not establish a connection with lower speed routers.
### Comment by Christian on 2018-08-21 22:04:13 -0400
And I forgot to mention – I do get 150/150 on both my wired LAN now and on the Ubiquity 5G WLAN. There is really no need to keep the Quantum router. I will return it tomorrow.
### Comment by Christian on 2018-08-21 22:22:41 -0400
And lastly, I just successfully restored the pfSense configuration from my old device, with VPN, DNS forwarder, and all, and it still works. This just confirms that it was not some configuration issue on the old firewall.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-08-22 13:26:58 -0400
Thanks for the reply, glad it’s working!
### Comment by Philip Boltas on 2018-09-05 17:56:49 -0400
Ok i have a question. What if you bought your own gateway fios router? They sell for 124.00 roughly on Amazon. Wouldn’t you not pay a rental fee, seeing your supplying the router?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-09-06 08:51:16 -0400
Correct, you would not pay a rental fee.
### Comment by JASON on 2018-09-27 13:30:33 -0400
Thanks for the instructions! I was able to successfully complete this! I went to Verizon via Chat, and asked to be escalated to a resolver, which they did right away. Within 5 minutes, the tech was able to remotely enable ethernet on the the ONT. I ran a ethernet cable from the ONT to a Google Wifi mesh router just on the other side of the wall and was able to get everything working easily. Then I set up the other Wifi points. After all of that was set up, I contacted Verizon (again via Chat) and had them remove the Verizon router from my account, which they did without issue. I returned the Verizon router the next day and.. bam, all done. 🙂
Sorry about the email address, trying real hard to not have it floating out there since I recently had some hacking issues.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-09-27 20:53:22 -0400
Glad it worked out!
And don’t worry about the email, I’m all about privacy here!
### Comment by Mark on 2018-09-29 16:21:27 -0400
OK. I’m a novice here. I have Verizon FIOS Triple Play. Want to get rid of my Verizon Router, well, just because. He sold me a ASUS AC1750 Gigabit Router and Moca BridgeAdapter (Bonded 2.0 MoCa for Ethernet over Coax). Told me to simply replace the routers and put the Moca bridge between the wall (coax) the router. Plug-and-play.
However, after reading through this chat room, I’m wondering if I should simply hang on to my old Verizon router and (MI424WR) and avoid the hassle. Thoughts?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-10-01 10:51:22 -0400
I don’t have the triple play (I’m internet-only), so I really can’t comment. As far as I know, you need the Verizon router somewhere on your network (even if it’s not the primary router) for the guide and VoD to work.
My advice is to check out options 9 and 10 on this chart and their forums.
### Comment by Mark on 2018-10-01 12:46:51 -0400
Thanks. Does that mean you can have multiple routers at separate locations in the house with separate IDs?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-10-01 23:09:05 -0400
What do you mean by “IDs”? You can have as many routers in your house as you want, but each one creates another NAT and firewall level.
### Comment by MARK KIMMITT on 2018-10-05 04:00:20 -0400
Again, I’m a novice. What is a NAT? And what is a firewall level?
If I’m too much of a novice to be on this web site, please tell me and I’ll move to a “Routers for Dummies” web site.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-10-05 08:46:31 -0400
Basically, at one point when the internet began, every single device on the entire internet got a unique IP address (nowadays, this is a terrifying thought). However, it was quickly realized that we would run out of IP addresses, so we needed a fix. The fix was to only give routers on the big open internet a unique IP, and put a “mini” internet behind each router (this is where we have WAN vs LAN). Then, your router will hand out IPs to your devices at home and act as the “middle man” between the internet and your devices. That’s NAT.
When a packet need to go from Google to your laptop at home, Google only knows to send it to your router. Then, your router knows which device to send it to.
Every time you put a router on your network, you have NAT. If you have two routers, you have double NAT. Three routers is triple NAT, etc… It becomes complicated to forward ports and open your firewall for things because you have so many layers to work through.
I don’t think it’s something you can’t learn, but you may be in over your head for this right now. I would recommend doing more research before you start moving routers around, or else you may loose your TV, internet, and/or phone.
### Comment by Mark on 2018-10-12 02:07:54 -0400
Agree
### Comment by Mike on 2018-10-20 10:20:32 -0400
I just had fios installed, the tech ran an ethernet cable from their ONT to their quantum router. I released the DHCP lease on their router per your instructions, connected my router to the ONT cable and the internet works fine. I also have fios tv but I use WMC with a cablecard, it works fine also. Can anyone see why I shouldn’t return their quantum router?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-10-22 08:20:41 -0400
I would hang on for a few weeks just to be sure, before you return it.
### Comment by EgbertSt on 2018-11-10 14:37:15 -0500
Your throughput is a bit higher using that Ethernet port on the ONT than letting an Verizon-provided broadband modem router bridge the MoAC cable into providing that Ethernet.
ActionTec Rev A/C/D MoCa has 100 Mbps throughput
ActionTec Rev E/F MoCa has 100 Mbps throughput
ActionTec Rev. G/I MoCA has 175 Mbps throughput
FiOS Quantum Gateway MoCA has 200 Mbps throughput
whereas:
ONT direct Ethernet goes up to 1 Gbps throughput
So just for Internet/data service, why bother with MoCA or R6 cabling?
Call Verizon Support, ask to “bridge the Ethernet at the ONT” using the same Verizon’s own router but through Ethernet (instead of RG-6) cable. Be patient. Escalate to level 2 if necessary
### Comment by HubFlyer on 2018-12-10 06:20:47 -0500
Thanks for the great info, Logan.
Currently have Verizon FIOS 100/100 on Actiontec MI424WR Rev I. No TV or phone, just internet. I own the router and it is already connected via ethernet from ONT, no coax.
About to replace this old router with new Asus RT-AC68U.
Since I already have ethernet connection there will be no need for a call to Verizon to turn it on. My question is whether I need to break the DHCP lease as you describe or simply move connections from old to new and follow Asus Quick setup.
Thanks and regards,
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-12-10 21:57:26 -0500
You will definitely need to break the DHCP lease, as Verizon won’t “see” the new router at your house unless you do.
Some people (myself included) needed to call Verizon, because breaking the lease didn’t make Verizon “forget” my old router, while others had no issues just clicking “Release” and swapping their routers.
Good luck!
### Comment by Ipsi Dixit on 2018-12-24 15:30:15 -0500
Hi. Thanks for the time for putting this information together. I’m posting just reporting a nit level error in your otherwise beautiful page. Ethernet CAT6 has EIGHT conductors, but only FOUR pairs. So there’s something awry with your description of testing EIGHT pairs. Most likely you meant to advise testing the pin-out mappings and electrical properties of all the conductors end-to-end. So, I recommend changing:
“I tested my cable with a cable tester (to verify all eight pairs were punched down correctly) and then tested it between my laptop and the FiOS router.”
To:
“I tested my cable with a cable tester (to verify all four pairs were punched down correctly at both ends) and then tested it between my laptop and the FiOS router.”
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2018-12-26 08:17:49 -0500
Whoops, sorry, I updated it. Nice catch, thanks!
### Comment by Dave D’Ambra on 2019-01-24 23:11:41 -0500
Hey Logan,
This thread is seriously awesome buddy, your a beast when it comes to this tech stuff. I had Verizon now for about 2 years and always just had internet, no phone or TV. I use streaming boxes for everything I could ever watch. Started out with 50/50 and renewed to 100/100 for the same price. And that’s the weird part, when I had 50/50 before I upgraded I remember having the OTN in my laundry room. After the upgrade where it was on the wall there was nothing, Just the big block rechargeable battery from inside it but NO OTN. There was just an Ethernet cable that I followed from the Actiontec I’ve had for 2 years to a hole that went straight outside to a Verizon box on the side of the house. I read this thread top to bottom a few times and was nervous especially since I didn’t even have an OTN inside. I just said hell with it and Did it anyway. I broke the lease and powered off the actiontec immediately after (which was such an easy process btw) and then continued to set up my new Tp-link ac1900 Touch 5. Very user friendly and nice looking. It practically hooks itself up without any need for your computer. The second I popped that Ethernet cord, (that used to run my ActionTec) the internet immediately starting running- And Fast.
Awesome thread my man. Pretty cool how this one thread has helped so many people since you started it in 2015, I found it for the first time I think on Monday Feb 21, 2019
Good stuff Logan.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2019-01-25 10:18:46 -0500
Thanks! I’m just glad to help people save a few bucks, and I’m also glad your setup worked out!
Thanks for sharing!
### Comment by Dave D’Ambra on 2019-01-25 17:11:43 -0500
Quick question Logan, at speeds of 100/100 I still have some lag and buffering here and there. I’ll do a Speedtest on my phone and get the full 100 mbps and then I’ll do it on a fire stick and only max out at 30 mbps. I guess my question is how can I get the best maximum speed on all my seven devices I send that 100/100 through from the Router. Obviously taping battery’s to Ethernet cables and putting plastic bottles with salt residue on all the antennas is just made up idiotic YouTube shit from jerkoffs like TheoJoe ! but can I speed it up with something else ?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2019-01-26 11:37:07 -0500
Chances are, your phone has both a better WiFi chip in it and a better CPU than the Fire Stick. Most of the cheap devices (Roku/Fire Sticks, printers, cameras, etc…) have cheap slow WiFi chipsets.
It’s probably not your internet slowing you down, but the hardware on each device. If possible, try to hardwire devices that can be plugged in like desktops and game consoles. For WiFi, does your router support 5Ghz? If so, try to get some devices on the 5Ghz range, since it’s generally faster.
### Comment by Harris on 2019-02-15 01:27:08 -0500
I have read from Verizon website that if you switch off their router for a whole day (around 24h) then the DHCP lease expires so you can connect your own router after that. Maybe that’s another option if you don’t want to log in to the verizon device and do it manually. Here is the link from Verizon: https://forums.verizon.com/t5/Fios-Internet/Using-your-own-router-with-Verizon-FiOS/td-p/851632
### Comment by Clark on 2019-04-03 19:30:57 -0400
So far that Asus router has been the best for me.
### Comment by John Leite on 2019-04-13 10:29:17 -0400
If the ONT is outside, do you have to run Ethernet from outside into the house? Thanks.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2019-04-13 11:25:42 -0400
Unfortunately yes.
### Comment by DougW on 2019-04-23 17:30:32 -0400
Logan/others – thanks for the great posts and conversations… really, really helpful.
We had Verizon FIOS for a few years and were upgraded to 75/75 six months ago… which included an upgrade to the Quantum Gateway router….
Service was great until the last week or so when we experienced multiple dropped internet access daily… requiring either soft or hard reboot of the router.
We currently have coaxial from the ONT to the router… and trying to run a ethernet from the ONT (outside) to inside the house would be tricky and potentially expensive… we’re also moving in a month or so…
Could I replace Verizon’s router (which appears to be defective) with my own, more reliable router if it had coaxial/ethernet inputs and provided similar functionality as the Verizon router, i.e., all-in-one MoCA bridge, router, switch, and wireless access-point?
Thanks in advance for any help/assistance you can provide..
Doug
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2019-04-24 08:41:59 -0400
If you’re moving in a month, I would just wait. To answer your question, I don’t think you’ll be able to find a consumer router with coax inputs that is compatible with Verizon, so you’ll need some sort of MoCA adapter. Also, if you have Verizon TV, you can’t ditch the router completely, since the TV guide depends on the router for information.
FYI there was an exploit published a few weeks ago against the Quantum router, so you should update your router ASAP if you haven’t already.
### Comment by DougW on 2019-04-24 10:17:29 -0400
thanks very much Logan for the quick and thorough response… really appreciate… and thanks for the note re updating the router.. will do…
we’re actually moving to a rural area in Central Virginia were our only ISP is Century Link and looks like we’ll be stuck with DSL (10 Mps) for a while… going to be very painful for us since we’re used to high speed internet.
take care,
Doug
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2019-04-26 08:21:43 -0400
Good luck, I hope the move goes well!
### Comment by Richard Kennel on 2019-08-14 20:03:00 -0400
Please let me know the Verizon ONT Model # shown twice on this page with door on left both open and closed. I understand this is mounted inside the house and for which I need only landline connectivity.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2019-08-15 08:28:25 -0400
The model number of the black box (the actual box that converts fiber to ethernet) is I-211M-K. I don’t think the Verizon housing (with the doors and battery) has a number itself.
### Comment by Breanna on 2020-02-03 08:14:51 -0500
My router is giving off wireless signal, but it does not give internet access. I’ve tried restoring to factory settings, but that won’t work either. Is there any way to fix this?
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2020-02-05 11:13:07 -0500
Are you able to ping anything (like `ping google.com` or `ping 8.8.8.8`)?
You may need to call Verizon. I had to when I wasn’t getting internet access. They might need to allow a new MAC address onto their network.
### Comment by Brian on 2020-04-22 11:16:42 -0400
Hello, I just recently discovered this thread and it is amazing. I just recently bought a house that appears to already be configured for Verizon but I am not sure if it previously had FiOS or not. I selected “self-service installation” since I already have a modem/router and I would rather use my own router for FiOS without the need for my old modem. While inspecting the house I did come across a Verizon ADP-25CR A Power Adaptor with what appears to be a spliced Cable running inside, I do not believe this to be a coaxial cable but it may very well be. My ONT does have a coaxial cable running into/out of it. There is an Ethernet port in the house that is not connected to this ADP-25CR A Power Adaptor and is in another room. I connected my old configured router to the port, connected my device to the router and was receiving a strong wireless signal as if I had connection but when testing I was not able to actually access the internet.
Do I still need to call Verizon to break the coaxial connection and to run Ethernet only?
AND
Since I do not currently own a Verizon router can I skip the DHCP Lease break portion and just run an Ethernet cable from the ONT in even though it appears there already is an Ethernet connection inside but does not appear to be working as thought?
OR
Do I just call Verizon to figure out wth is going on if the Ethernet connection is not working correctly, or is the ADP-25CR A Power Adaptor causing the issue with the internet not working?
Thank you all.
### Comment by Logan Marchione on 2020-04-23 10:39:18 -0400
I think you’re going to need to call Verizon. Who knows if the equipment you found is working, or even still supported by Verizon. Also, they are able to see (from their end) what ports are active on your ONT.
If you’re able to run the ethernet yourself from the ONT to your router, there is usually no need for anyone from Verizon to come onsite.
### Comment by Luzy Sofer on 2020-06-25 14:19:54 -0400
So far that TP-Link router has been the best for me. 
